Posts by Flowerpetal

29

Self Hypnosis

by TR in

jw
friends

just wondering if any here have tried this, and what were your results.

or, does it offend your religious and/or spiritual senses?.

tr

Flowerpetal

I daydream a lot. Could that fall under the self-hypnosis category?

Say you do hypnotize yourself, how do you snap yourself out of it? That has always been a fear of mine.

21

JW Practices

by patio34 in

maybe this irked you in the past?

i had a hard time convincing--nay, believing--that we lived in such baaaad times.

jws have the belief that times are bad, so we had the task of convincing the householders of that.

Flowerpetal

I have a comment. While I agree with RR that we are living in the last days, we can make the best of these days or the worst of them by our attitude.

We can make problems for ourselves by creating situations where one might get ridiculed for his belief when one didn't have to.

JWs here in this country and other prosperous countries do have it good, but then there are other countries where they might be suppressed or killed ike in Africa in the past between the Hutu and Tsutsi tribes or in Russian Georgia. I am also told that people of other religions who are missionaries in different parts of the world have tough times too.

I have an atheist friend who believes that unless the world's leaders get together and do something about the ruining of our planet, then life might cease to exist in 100 yrs.

40

Where do they sit in your hall?

by ns7 in

jw
friends

what i find bemusing is, if there are any disfellowshipped ones in your hall they have to sit at the back.

now without getting into the merits/rights/wrongs of whether this should be still acceptable, where do they sit in your hall?

you see i seem to remember that they would sit on the back row, come in quietly just after the song and prayer and leave at the end just as quick.

Flowerpetal

DA>>Flowerfetal,
Thanks for straighting me out.

Hang in there girl.

DA
------
FP>>Who me? I'm an old toughie! But don't ask me to be on Survivor! LOL

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Tergiversator
(of the I Might Have Been Like FlowerPetal If I'd Found This Board Earlier class)
-------

Thanks so much, Tergiversator. I have come a long way these past 4 years of posting on various boards; learned a lot, read a lot, even Crisis of Conscience. And I am now reading a book criticing <gasp!> the Bible!

I like your sense of humor!

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

larc>>
FP,
I think you are a good person and you would honor and praise God and try to bring others to him whether you were required to or not. Nonetheless, it is a requirement of your religion; it is not an option. I am glad that you go to a congregation of good hearted people, however, there are many horror stories of congretations that simply don't work that way. I am also glad that you want to help others in a charitable way. However, this is not common among the Witnesses. I think you know that everything I say is true, and it probably saddens you.
---------

Yes larc it saddens me about the horror stories. I don't know about the charitable thing because I don't ask anyone what they do. It's a private affair between them and their conscience, IMHO.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

fp,
There is no equality in teaching at any kh, where are the sisters giving the sunday discourses? Or how about talks at the assemblies?
Or sisters giving the bible readings? What you describe is a little 'lip service' nothing more... you can't be in a position of teaching responsibility, and anything a woman "teaches' can be amended,vetoed, disregarded by the men,,,as merely suggestions,,,,,nope,you're hoodwinked into thinking that a woman has any full share. The dumbest 15 yr old brother can 'take the lead' and have responsibility,over a sister with a PhD..and if you think that's just fine and fair,I feel sorry for you. What Prisca said is true,and I heard it before myself. What planet is your cong on?

-----

Flower>>My cong is on the Planet of Florida, and believe me that can be as far in outerspace that the rest of the U.S. and United Kingdom put together! LOL

OK I will acknowledge that women are told by men that their talks aren't really teaching (except in my cong . But really it is teaching--if only in the sublime. And it's done by their comments and their talks. We can argue this till the cows come home.

Next, I don't see anything wrong with women giving reading assignments. After all, if we are ordained ministers by right of baptism, women should be good readers too if they are going to preach in field service.

And it's not fair for a silly, young teeny to take the lead over some older, and wiser sisters. But as I stated before, I am against kids getting baptized until their are out of puberty.

But hey, ladies, whose hand is it that rocks the cradle anyway? Women, right? So we have power; lots of power. when we give birth to sons, we can show them the right way; the right attitude toward women and how to treat them.

Next, it takes a strong, humble man to be taken aside by a sister who feels like she has to correct something about him, and for him to listen--yet I have seen it done. So yeah, maybe we aren't ostentatiously out there teaching, but it gets done.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

FP: "What is your definition of a Christian?"

Ter>>A follower of Jesus Christ.

Now, I realize that is a bit too much of an "escape by simplification", but I think it's hard to define it more than that. The primary reason it is difficult to follow Christ's teachings while a Witness is that unless you're of the annointed, you don't believe that a lot of what he says applies to you, so I think you miss a lot of important aspects of his teaching.

FP>>Ahhhh......but we do apply all of Jesus teaching. It's the apostle Paul's teachings that we are told applies to the anointed and to the great crowd by extension. And so there in lies my questioning and that's why I say Jesus teachings are more broad, and give one more latitude. Perhaps Peter, James's and John's epistles as well might apply to the anointed, but John's epistles are very pointed about where a Christian's love of God and people should be.

As for the rest of your post, I agree except by saying that I don't think women aren't elders, etc. because of Paul's alluding to them being spiritually weak. I think it's more due to physical limitations and emotional. Maybe what I said about men being nervous about women's cycles in their presidency is what worried Paul, like you suggested. That is very interesting. But men think different from women too. They are able to have heated arguments and afterward, go down to the corner bar and have some beers. Could women be like that? Maybe just a slim few. Most would hold grudges and how would that be if they had to sit in on judicial cases in the congregation? Just something to think about.

Anyway, this thing I have with Paul has been on my mind in the last few months, and a friend of mine have been discussing him as well.

12

THOUGHT PROVOKING QUESTIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!

by d0rkyd00d in

i printed these questions from a website long ago, and loved them to death cuz they freed me from that god-forsaken religion.

i challenge any witness to answer all of them in their entirety, since the true religion stands against all falsehood.

please note that these are from scriptures in the new world translation, used by jehovah's witnesses.

Flowerpetal

Dood>>5) Jesus uses the phrase "Truly I say to you,..." over 50 times in the bible. IN the NWT, the comma is placed after the word "you" every time except in Lk 23:43, where the comma is placed after the word "today". Why is the comma placed after "today" instead of after you "you" in this verse? If the translation of this phrase in Lk 23:43 was consistent with the translation of this phrase in all the other verses in which it appears, and the comma was placed after "you", how would it read?

========
Fp>>The NWT isn't the only translation that has the comma put that way.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Prisca>>
Flowerpetal said :

In the meantime, I give Goodwill Industries and have given furniture to the Salvation Army.
I wouldn't mind even doing volunteer work for an organization that visits hospitals as long as they are secular in nature. It's what I would let *myself* do. I would not join any *religious organization* that does volunteer work,

Prisca>>I don't know about Goodwill, but the Society classes the Salvation Army as being part of Babylon the Great.

FP>>Well apparently not any more! I haven't seen anything lately in print nor anyone speak of not contributing to it. Besides that, it was one of two orgs that would pick up. And since I had furniture, I sure wasn't going to haul it somewhere else. And thirdly, Jehovah knows my heart.

Prisca>>The Society once disapproved of giving to religious charities. Flowerpetal says she won't join these religious charities, yet she clearly does not see that giving to religious charities is supporting them!

FP>>See above.

FP>>Prisca quotes me saying>>At the end of the course, they have a decision to make and that is do they want to dedicate their life to Jehovah and symbolize it by water baptism. And they need to know that this baptism will identify them as one of JWs.

Prisca>>Is that what Jesus said would happen when he told his followers to be baptised in the name of "the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"? [Matt 28:19]
Hmm... I don't see a 20th century organisation mentioned here.

FP>>I don't either.

FP>>Prisca again quotes me>>Can she give a talk at the hall just like a man? (of course with a householder but the information she brings out still benefits the congregation).

Prisca>>ROTFLOL! Flowerpetal really shouldn't have mentioned this one, as she just lost her argument!

Women are not allowed to give talks like the men do, period. The way they explain away women giving talks with a householder is that these talks are given as suggestions as how to present the info - so that the males can choose to accept those "suggestions" or not. (this is what my elder-father once told me)

FP>>Perhaps that was his opinion? The wife of the school overseer in my cong., when I was her householder a while back and we got together to practice, was concerned about how she was presenting the information in her talk because she felt that she was teaching and she wanted the cong to get the gist of what she was saying in her talk. Now where do you suppose she got that idea from?

Prisca>>One thing a lot of Witnesses that come to this board do, is forget that we who left have years of experience in the "truth" behind us. We are not idiots that have become foaming-at-the-mouth, satan-worshipping, drug-induced, sex maniacs that hate the Bible and anyone and everyone that calls themself a Jehovah's Witness.

FP>>Have I ever alluded to you or others, that I feel that way?
Yet I get the feeling that I am being put to the 3rd degree here, for only stating what has been *my* experience. Each experience is different. Sure, I have visted congs where I can see attitudes like you express. I remember an elder (before they were called that)who would just call on people at the WT study who hadn't had their hand raised and expect them to make a comment. (mean attitude, too) His reason? Every witness should have studied the lesson and be prepared to answer every question.

Prisca>>We DO know what went on. We DO know how things operate in the Org. We still have family and friends in the Org. And we are normal people, really!!

FP>>And I realize that you, from your experience, and reading experiences of others, know. I know that all you want is to be acknowledged and that these experiences have happened to you or people you know. You want to be validated. OK So I validate you. You are a normal person, I understand that.

But can't you see or understand, that some of us haven't had those experiences...at least as of yet? All mine, on the whole, have been pleasant. Sure there were times when looking back now, I have seen the beginnings of attitudes that appear to be more prevalent now, and perhaps I would have now been butting heads, or more, with some elders, or cong members, but I live in another part of the country now--and those guys are very, very old! LOL

I feel that my cong. is really living up to the standards that the bible sets out. And as far as I can tell, there aren't any gossips in my cong. The elders' wives mind their own business and for now, at least, things are running smoothly.

Please don't ask me to create something that I don't see.

54

I'm a newbie too

by Flowerpetal in

jw
friends

i just registered just today.

i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.

there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.

Flowerpetal

Dear Tina, you wrote:
fp,
You're the one splitting hairs and ignoring my question,,,,,

FP>>Eh????????? I believe it was larc who mentioned that I thought HE was splitting hairs--well no matter.

Tina>>I was a witness most of my life-pioneered,

FP>>Well bully for you. I have been a witness most of my life too and was a regular pioneer for a while and have auxilliary pioneered on many occasions.

Tina>>dont tell me that not reporting fs is ok,and it sure does affect your standing,privileges,whether one is considered spiritually,weak.....and yes it is mandatory if you want to have a good reputation etc.

FP>>OK, let's look at this way. If one loves God and wants to talk about him, what's it to them if they report their time preaching? Nothing. It could just be an hour a month if that is what they can do, due to their circumstances. If on the other hand, people are forced to get baptized, and told they must go in service and to worry about what other people (the congregation) thinks about you, well I can see the pressure of feeling like it's mandatory. And it appears that there are a lot of legalistic witnesses out there who impose this feeling and attitude to the flock. That's really too bad. If I were in a congregation like that, I would justifiably so, feel the same way you do.

My congregation is not like that. Here's a good example: Last year or the year before last, (can't remember exactly) the society set up a program called Pioneers Assist Others. Already I had been going out in service mid-week with the reg. pioneers (we had 8 at one time in our cong). The elders were asking different publishers if they wanted to participate in this program. Some said yes; I said no. And that was the end of it. No asking me "Why" or no putting pressure on me. No pioneer coming up to me and "encouraging" me to participate, etc. No questions--nada.

Tina>>Join not in the sense that you think,for many join simply means having ones name on a list for scheduling the voulunteer time,nothing more. You obviously know nothing about real volunteer work,,,now Iasked you What organizations are approved by the wts?

FP>>First of all I didn't "join" this forum to be inquisitioned.

Second, I don't see joining as having your name put on a list for scheduling volunteer time. Third, if I were to do volunteer work, I would get educated about it as to what it's all about, before doing it. And I do have a booklet printed by the county I live in which lists volunteer orgs. Fourth, I already stated I don't have a list of orgs that might be approved by the society--and frankly I don't care if they have a list or not as it is *MY* individual decision; and *my* conscience which will be my guide as to what volunteer place I would work in.

Tina>>larc defined it quite well as a requirement,Now the WTS approved List please?

FP>>See above. I will just add that your experience as a witness is not my experience and vice versa.

Tina>>Thanks for your help larc, seems she's just avoiding an honest answer to me...

FP??I have given you the answers twice now. I suggest you carefully read each line.

Tina>>and btw,yes you do recruit,you;re goal at the door is a rv(whih you said you do) leading to a bible study.which leads to joining the org-yes dear You recruit,,,,You're not talking to people here who dont know the deal,,,T

FP>>My goal is to study the Bible with interested people. If after coming to a knowledge of what God wants, they can decide to become a witness or not. It is THEIR decision--not mine. And I won't pressure them.

And stop lumping me in with these legalistic, organizational type witnesses which you must have had a lot of experience with. I am not of that ilk, thank you very much. >:(