Hi Jim! What follows is meant to be upbuilding, and should be read in that light.
Jim Rizoli wrote:
Your information is correct in a lot of points here
Yes.
but your understanding of what transpired in Germany is not corrrect.
No.
On the contrary, IMO my understanding thereof is quite correct, based as it is on decades of study and contemplation.
Show me what I have written that is WRONG or misleading, please (having first carefully read what I have written) The board is the right place for that, and not email. We all benefit, then. Have no fear of embarrassing me! We of the Viprous Apostate Class thrive on loving correction and admonition (administration of, and receipt). And I am sure I have things to learn, as we all do.
If what you meant when you wrote "not correct" was "not complete", and where you wrote "understanding" you meant "presentation", then I agree with you. The post was too long as it stands! This is a discussion board, not a website.
I have deliberately omitted, to keep this relatively short, inter alia:
(a) the background: what conditions led to (and enabled) the Nazis legally seizing power; and how, subsequent to Hitler's writing of Mein Kampf in 1923-4, there was never (right up to the storming of Berlin) any climbdown or significant shift in the aims of the Nazis, let alone any retraction of the explicit and implied promises of that book - on the contrary, its message was oft-repeated, enlarged upon - and Hitler's clear agenda of conquest, domination and genocide finally implemented, and of the Nazi government's position as Hitler's tool (his control being absolute);
(b) the climate in Germany (and Austria) once they did come into power but prior to WW2; the "national spirit" then and thereafter, and the widespread informer culture and other evils inculcated in, awakened, given opportunity to reveal itself and fostered among the general public (as distinct from just the Bibelforster) - relevant to what follows below;
(c) the despicable conduct (at the cost of many rank and file Bible students) of a small number of self-serving, cowardly JWs in Germany, at least one of whom wholly got away with it (this criminal managed to collaborate, destroy those who had trusted him, and not only evade any subsequent censure or sanction by Brooklyn but enhance his own power);
(d) the fate of what happened to any who tried to get justice done, even retrospectively, or the record set straight, as to expose what had happened would simultaneously expose the whole scandal and cost the Watchtower dear;
(e) the attempted whitewash by Brooklyn, making white into black, perpetrator into victim, and gentile into Jew; and
(f) the amazing chain of post-war Watchtower claims (I supplied a reference to one of Norman Hovland's pithy exposes of this one, though), capitalizing with typically breathtaking audacity and shamelessness on the blood on their own altar, and keeping on changing the numbers according to whim - and later, with a view to participation in compensation funds.
Do you still believe that my understanding is "incorrect?
If I really thought what you seem to think I must have thought, then when I stated in the original post:
It is an exposure of the cynical, callous, disgraceful attitude of the Watchtower bosses in Brooklyn and elsewhere
why on New Earth would I have added "and elsewhere"? Riddle me that, please!
The Writing Department of the Watchtower is known for its vigilance and careful (ab)use of language. And I belong to their more advanced jubilee antitype, my craftsmanship is at least as ..
And if some residual doubts remain, Jim, then I am afraid you have only yourself to blame. In the post above I had written (a short way above my "sig"):
see - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=19553&site=3
Had you followed that link you would have seen from my post of Jan 19, 2002 18:22 (i.e. nearly a year ago) in the thread pointed to, that I was very familiar with the issues of what transpired in Germany (which is not to say I know everything about it, which would be absurd an d nonsensical to claim) at that time.
What I have done, I believe, is what I have set out to do, that is:
1. Provide clear evidence of "God's sole visible organization on earth" pandering (formally, at both branch and international level, so this cannot be ascribed to errant individuals as the Watchtower otherwise would wriggle out, implicitly blaming God for not making it clear to Bethel that they were being misled) to the Nazis (in order to safeguard material possessions and to continue preaching work, one may surmise);
AND
2. Provide irrefutable evidence that the foul nature of the Nazis, including their apolitical and religious goals (words chosen with such care by these dealers in verbal pornography!), was without question known to those in the Watchtower who so pandered, and at the time they so pandered if not long before; indeed, their panderings even paraphrase key Nazi material;
AND
3. Give the lie to the 1973 whitewash attempt that "we in Brooklyn never knew the nature of the Nazi agenda until much later";
AND
4. State (links to the math available) that incarceration and death rates among hapless German JWs were, even using the Watchtower's own figures, far, far more favorable than the ones for other target groups (Jews, the Romany peoples) among the native German population, giving the lie to the belief that the suffering among JWs was so high;
AND
5. Show that chicken farmer Himmler, at least, openly admired the JWs - damnation indeed when Satan's agents love you. As Himmler had ultimate control of both concentration and extermination camps (the latter not relevant to the JW issue), I speculate that he may not have been inclined to press for really harsh treatment of the incarcerated JWs - as is supported by the death rate statistics.
AND
6. Anecdotally illustrate that Nazi-type racist kookery and mispeculation (down to fantasies of eugenics and a hatred of "miscegnation") was far from foreign to the Watchtower, who had published reams of material that would have put smiles on the face of many Nazis - and while many such beliefs were widely held in those darker times:
(a) this was God's sole visible organization (they boldly claimed again and again);
(b) God was their editor-in-chief (they claimed under oath); and
(c) Many, many people who did not claim to be inspired or "inspired" nonetheless received the New Light that racism was wicked and wrong centuries before the watchful Tower did.
Have I done 1.-6., Jim? If not, what part have I not done, or not done correctly, or not done completely?
As I am sure you appreciate, we write here for the benefit of the Future Lurker Class, and for material to be drawn from the repository and used elsewhere. For this reason I try to focus on one issue per thread. Would you like me to explore these other issues too? I am currently muzzled on JWD, so Simon perhaps prefers flavors of ice cream to be discussed, rather than sexually abused JW kids, Watchtower Nazis etc.
I look forward to seeing your material in public. If names have still to be protected, anonymize as needed.
With warm a'gaping christian fellowship,
Your most 'umble, dutiful and hard-working brother who believes in and practises Progressive Revelation,
--
Focus
(The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Hypocrisy Appreciation Class)
Edited by - Focus on 3 November 2002 9:59:45
