The most incredible part of watching this was to realize that intelligent people like our ex-Bethelites here on JWN sat through it, and I suspect in many cases, nodded in agreement!! Ain't brainwashing a wonderful thing?!?
tenyearsafter
JoinedPosts by tenyearsafter
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Could you eat breakfast after watching this at Bethel?
by Dogpatch inthis is a partial video of the morning breakfast table in brooklyn bethel in the late 80s, with lyman swingle hosting... the governing body member who at first tried to shelter ray franz from disfellowshipping, but then within a year or two his spirit was broken and he was a bitter man.. randy (i was there and it was death-dealing, like the death eaters from harry potter!).
address of windows media file if you don't see anything:.
http://www.randytv.com/swinglebreakfast.wmv.
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I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses
by PenelopePaige inhi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.
but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.
i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.
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tenyearsafter
Penelope,
First of all, welcome to the Board!
As many have pointed out already, not everything is as it seems on the surface, and that is especially true with JW's. As with most things, there can be found some good sprinkled in among the bad with JW's...at first, they are very welcoming and loving. They will try to convince you that they are the happiest people on earth and make you feel special for having found the "truth". Unfortunately, there is no half in, half out with JW's. As you continue to study, you will be asked to not question teachings and eventually be pressured in to making a commitment to baptism. If you don't "progress", they will drop you like a hot potato!
The best advice I can give you is to research, research, research before making a decision. And that means not just studying JW literature...use the internet and see the whole story, not just what is spoon fed to you during your study. JW's don't do well when you start to question beliefs...they become defensive and see you as an opposer. The majority of them cannot answer simple doctrinal questions outside of the "company line" they receive from the Watchtower Society.
Good luck in your search...a final note, if you love Christmas, this isn't the religion for you!
TYA
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i need to know if jehovahs witnesses are actually told to ....
by looloo incompletly ignore disfellowshipped children and never speak at all to them , also what about the children of the disfellowshipped children that are growing up unaware of the "truth " ?
im thinking of writing to my inlaws who have never bothered with our child for two and a half years to tell them to just walk on by if they see us as it would confuse her if they saw us and acted as though nothing has happened .
then they will be good jws and obediant to the watchtower and not blame us for not letting them see her which is what they lie and tell people !.
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tenyearsafter
As mentioned above, there is to be no contact with DF'ed children not living in the home...the exception is limited contact during family emergencies. In the case of my family, that means they will talk to me if they need money, as I am the trustee for a family trust we share. When the dollars are at stake, they couldn't be nicer to me...otherwise it is complete "radio silence"! The interesting thing is, that when I was DF'ed my children were also cut off by their JW grandparents...even though they weren't living with me. Go figure...
The bottom line is, unless you really want your kids to have a relationship with their grandparents, it might be better to just not allow contact. My guess is that the grandparents won't really care since in their minds, your kids will most likely suffer the same dire consequences they see you suffering as a result of the DF'ing. It sucks, but it is a JW reality...just hope that they open their eyes, but as long as they are brainwashed they will view you all as the "walking dead".
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New to this site. Scared, Lonely and in a lot of pain due to shunning by my family.
by wonder*woman inthis is my very first post to this forum.
i am begging for some much needed encouragment and support by those who are kind hearted and know exactly the pain shunning causes.
i am a 30 year old former jehovah's witness and a mother of two beautiful girls.
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tenyearsafter
Welcome to the bord WW!
I am sorry you are experiencing the pain of shunning at the hands of family. It is a very cruel and, at first, incomprehendible action by the very ones that are supposed to be closest to you. There has been plenty of good advice offered, so all I can add is that it will get better...and the freedom to be you is such a wonderful thing, that the pain you are feeling now will start to fade and you will build a new and better life outside of the control of the WTS.
Hang tough...life will get better!
TYA
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Honest questions for believers.....
by Paulapollos in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-gb</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val=" " /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
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over the last couple of years, i have done a lot of reading, and rather than answering my questions, it has made me think even more - particularly about god and the bible.. when i was kicked out of the wtbts, it was because of my personal belief in jesus.
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tenyearsafter
Well said PSac...
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Honest questions for believers.....
by Paulapollos in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-gb</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val=" " /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].
over the last couple of years, i have done a lot of reading, and rather than answering my questions, it has made me think even more - particularly about god and the bible.. when i was kicked out of the wtbts, it was because of my personal belief in jesus.
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tenyearsafter
Paulapollos,
Thanks for your questions...and I don't pretend to have answers beyond my very simplistic viewpoint that we live in an imperfect world populated by imperfect humans creating imperfect interpretations. Using that premise, I could use the same reasoning regarding science. There are absolutes such as gravity, physical laws, etc. and there are theories and hypotheses that require a certain degree of faith as part of accepting them. I cannot with a certainty tell you that the universe is infinite...or what the origin of life is...or if there is life on other planets, etc. The leap to certainty on any of these and many other subjects require a dgree of faith in accepting how they were established. I see the questions you have regarding the Bible, Jesus and his return, etc. as requiring that same type of faith. I don't think there is a black and white proof regarding any of these subjects. I can only rely on what makes sense to me and how that works with my belief system. There will always be someone with an opposing viewpoint there to de-bunk the other side's position...imperfect men create imperfect analyses, and thus will always be subject to criticism and dissection creating doubt in the mind of the hearer.
TYA
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Jesus is NOT the Mediator for the Great Crowd?
by Resistance is Futile inso according to the watchtower, jesus is not the mediator for the great crowd.
evidently jesus is only mediator for the anointed.
this means that about 99.9% of jehovahs witnesses cant say that jesus is their mediator.
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tenyearsafter
Joey,
They explain it the same way that they explain Jesus being mediator for just the annointed, ie: those led by God's Spirit are the annointed who in turn lead the other sheep...
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Honest questions for believers.....
by Paulapollos in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-gb</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val=" " /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].
over the last couple of years, i have done a lot of reading, and rather than answering my questions, it has made me think even more - particularly about god and the bible.. when i was kicked out of the wtbts, it was because of my personal belief in jesus.
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tenyearsafter
Paulapollos,
I posted the following in another thread:
I think the key to deciding on a spiritual path is to first acknowledge that there is NO PERFECT CHURCH! I know this may seem a bit simplistic, but the reality for ex-JW's is that we have always lived in a world of absolutes while in the WTS. This mindset makes it VERY difficult to even consider associating with another religion because it will automatically cause a mental conflict with the absolutes of belief that we lived under as JW's. As LWT mentions, most churches do not require absolute adherence to church dogma...there is no one policing of your thoughts or bringing you up before a judicial body for judgement. The key point taught in Christian churches, as an example, is the need for a personal relationship with Jesus and a fellowship with other believers. Beyond that, people take many other paths within the church. As Talesin points out, you may want to voluteer your time in some type of service to others...or you may want to work as lay teacher. Nothing is carved in stone.
If we are looking for perfection in this world, we will never find it, be it in the WTS, other churches or in non-religious pursuits. Life is limited by the imperfection of man...as long as we accept that, it makes other choices both easier to make and accept.
I too have struggled with some of the questions you are wrestling with. My wife really brought clarity to me on the subject when she pointed out that we live in an imperfect world, and as a result we will NEVER find the perfect church, organization or philosophy. Thus it becomes a search for the ideal place for you to pursue your spiritual path. If you are a believer in Jesus and the Bible, find a church that allows you to ask questions, think for yourself and avoid high control organizations. Many on this Board have embraced atheism or a form of agnosticism...I still choose to believe in God, but I can understand how others can't as a result of the intolerant and high control tactics they were subjected to while JW's.
I wish you well in your search...the best advice I can give is to follow your heart.
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DEAR RICH FOLKS: Get Ready For A (Tax) Revolution...
by darthfader ininteresting point of view and graphs.
is the us different today than it was in the 50's and 60's when tax rates were at their highest?
a lot of people agree that raising taxes pulls money out of the economy and will hinder job creation.
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tenyearsafter
What is the definition of a "rich person"? Is it annual earnings of $100K?...$200K...$500K? I think everyone's answer to that would differ and be dependent on what our particular economic situation is. I would guess to a person making $40K per year, even $100K would constitute being "rich". If you asked most people earning $200K, they would tell you that they are not "rich", and have similar challenges living within their means. This is the primary challenge I see with a "Robin Hood" approach to taxation.
We have touched on it several times before, but a flat tax is the fairest way to raise revenues and do away with loopholes. This way, there is not tax shelters for the rich or ways for corporations to defer taxes. Unfortunately, this is unlikey to happen in the U.S. as long as lawyers and accountants run Congress and other branches of the government...think about it...all three branches of the U.S. are dominated by lawyers, who have an inherent interest in keeping things complicated through legal complexity, requiring their profession's services to interpret and lead the "uneducated" public through the various legal mazes.
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Question for the Athiests/Agnostics
by jwfacts insome people feel they need a religion, and need to attend a church.
if such a person starts questioning the watchtower and they asked you "where else to go?
", what would you recommend?.
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tenyearsafter
I think the key to deciding on a spiritual path is to first acknowledge that there is NO PERFECT CHURCH! I know this may seem a bit simplistic, but the reality for ex-JW's is that we have always lived in a world of absolutes while in the WTS. This mindset makes it VERY difficult to even consider associating with another religion because it will automatically cause a mental conflict with the absolutes of belief that we lived under as JW's. As LWT mentions, most churches do not require absolute adherence to church dogma...there is no one policing of your thoughts or bringing you up before a judicial body for judgement. The key point taught in Christian churches, as an example, is the need for a personal relationship with Jesus and a fellowship with other believers. Beyond that, people take many other paths within the church. As Talesin points out, you may want to voluteer your time in some type of service to others...or you may want to work as lay teacher. Nothing is carved in stone.
If we are looking for perfection in this world, we will never find it, be it in the WTS, other churches or in non-religious pursuits. Life is limited by the imperfection of man...as long as we accept that, it makes other choices both easier to make and accept.