Posts by quietlyleaving

29

Why is it necessary that God be good?

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

15 years ago

if there is a sb (supreme being), there really isn't any logical necessity that it would conform in any manner to what we call "good".

it simply isn't a requirement, and yet for religious people it simply must be that god is good.. .

i wonder if it's love or fear, which causes people to cling to this idea.. .

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

well Socrates put the virtues to a very thorough examination. I'm a little fuzzy on this as we have only just started to study some of what he said but what sticks in my mind is that he likened himself to midwife - never really giving birth himself but helping others to do so.

I think he would say that it is necessary for "God" to be good so that there may be an ideal of goodness for humans to reach for. However, Socrates himself, I think, would question conventional ideas about god as he tended more towards atheism. But as to what goodness actually is, this would have to remain an open question because goodness does incorporate polarities (I don't think that Socrates would agree with me though as he tended to wonder that there may be an ultimate form of goodness).

Overall I agee with those who say the deity is beyond definition.

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22

"Religious Fundamentalists Have a Coherent Worldview"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

15 years ago

fundamentalists vs. liberal christians.

while commenting on a recent post at proud atheists, i found myself again reflecting on how i have more respect for fundamentalist christians than the so called liberal christians.

of course, i realize that "respect" isn't the best word here because religious fundamentalists are hardly worthy of respect.

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

well I too have a lot of admiration for people who can commit to something wholeheartedly by keeping a unifying vision of everything in front of them. But I think that it is just as admirable to be able to commit to something wholeheartedly and not have a unifying vision.

We all strive for coherence and this can be achieved even when lots of other people's unifying visions overlap. Regarding Weinberg, I also sense frustration with liberal christians - they are not an easy proposition if he is looking to lead them to atheism.

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22

"Religious Fundamentalists Have a Coherent Worldview"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

15 years ago

fundamentalists vs. liberal christians.

while commenting on a recent post at proud atheists, i found myself again reflecting on how i have more respect for fundamentalist christians than the so called liberal christians.

of course, i realize that "respect" isn't the best word here because religious fundamentalists are hardly worthy of respect.

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

Weinberg said that this appeals to him as a scientist, and I think he's absolutely right.

the scientific mind and the fundamentalist mind have more in common than not imo so the statement above is very understandable to me

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2

miracles...

by quietlyleaving in

jw
friends

15 years ago

we've just got back from spending a week overseas.

we always hire a car in this particular place and every single time we've visited this area we have a minor accident.

no exception this time.

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

wobble, we'd just had a meal of farm animals

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16

Could a JC and disfellowshipping be avoided on medical grounds?

by yadda yadda 2 in

15 years ago

has anyone avoided a jc and probable disfellowshipping by providing a medical certificate/note to the elders( from their doctor or mental health professional) along the lines that they are suffering from depression, could not endure a jc or investigation, and the risk of disfellowshipping and being shunned by their family could worsen their depression and put their mental health/physical health at risk?.

if i was an elder and got a letter/note along those lines i think i would be scared off from going through with the jc..

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

I personally know of cases where elders have held back from disfellowshipping - dementia, schizophrenia, depression and personality disorder. However the important point is that the congregation were aware that these individuals had these conditions and those who asked were told the reason why they were not disfellowshipped.

But on the other hand there have been too many cases where those with such conditions and worse have been disfellowshipped.

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310

Mill Hill Disfellowshippings

by BorgHater in

jw
friends

15 years ago

a few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.

i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.

borghater xx.

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

Hi on the rocks

glad you decided to join

ql

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16

Could a JC and disfellowshipping be avoided on medical grounds?

by yadda yadda 2 in

15 years ago

has anyone avoided a jc and probable disfellowshipping by providing a medical certificate/note to the elders( from their doctor or mental health professional) along the lines that they are suffering from depression, could not endure a jc or investigation, and the risk of disfellowshipping and being shunned by their family could worsen their depression and put their mental health/physical health at risk?.

if i was an elder and got a letter/note along those lines i think i would be scared off from going through with the jc..

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

I think it is possible but it has to be kept very quiet. But I don't how the WTS considers that it is possible to keep quiet when faced with such an ordeal!

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2

miracles...

by quietlyleaving in

jw
friends

15 years ago

we've just got back from spending a week overseas.

we always hire a car in this particular place and every single time we've visited this area we have a minor accident.

no exception this time.

15 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

we've just got back from spending a week overseas. We always hire a car in this particular place and every single time we've visited this area we have a minor accident. No exception this time. The very first day we backed into a garden wall .

Another sad thing for me was when my grand-daughter (just turned 4) was relating her experiences at school during the christmas season. Of course she refused to draw any Christmas pictures. She says she prayed to Jehovah to help her not feel left out but he didn't answer her prayer. She looked so forlorn and confused when she said this. But she is a resilient youngester and hopefully she will find some way to deal with this just as you all have.

The miraculous thing that was the highlight of the entire week was that we witnessed the birth of a baby goat. We were driving down a narrow country lane and all of a sudden there were goats everywhere. Then we noticed a farmer standing over a goat giving birth in the middle of the field. Mother and baby stood up immediately after the birth and the beaming farmer happily collected his flock together. All of us including my grand-daughter were delighted.

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69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

15 years ago

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

8 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

designs

I find a lot of agreement with the idea that holy spirit is difference itself - something to be revelled in

This to me explains quite well when believers say they somehow feel separated and unique

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69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

15 years ago

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

8 years ago

quietlyleaving 15 years ago

I may be dead wrong but it does seem to that Jehovahs witness beliefs are quite simliar to calvinistic thinking in that they foster the idea that believers are separate from the rest of mankind. This idea is further doubled within their structure in that the 144,000 are more chosen than the great crowd. It seems to me that the role JWs define for the 144,000 is hyper Calvinistic and pretty fatalistic.

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