Posts by caliber

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

Also, I can't speak for mainstream Christians, but JWs don't believe that God is only love, all the time. His attribute of love is balanced with justice, wisdom, power, etc. Thus you cannot expect all his actions to be 100% love. ~~Apognophos

So true , it seems many are expecting "absolute love" from God at all times , when in fact in the final outworkings of things...

his "ultimate love" may somehow require that his other cardinal qualities come into play.

one of God's standards is that he sets the standards and we can't know exactly what his plans or thoughts are.~~Apognophos

Idealistically love shown by God would be absolute love

But consider God is taking pragmatic steps for the eternal welfare of all mankind for all time to come

pragmatic .... a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best given the circumstances " ....

thus His ultimate goal ..... restitution of mankind ....... ultimate love

ultimate ..". happening or coming at the end of a process, series of events, etc."

love , justice, wisdom & power

"But the greatest of these is love"

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

o add to cofty's answer, if a Christian says he knows that God has a good reason for allowing suffering, this could be considered "pretending to know things" even if you don't claim to know the actual reason God has.~~~Apognophos

Cofty kept pressing for Christians to give a reason for God's non-action..

on three occasions I quote this Bible verse... which he called a non-answer

Should I have come up with an answer of my own to pacify him or tell him what I beleive is the truth ?

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the Lord.
'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

jgnat.. I hope others at least caught the wink after the word summary

I am truly sorry for the confusion and I truly wasn't sure you were talking to me

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

When we all - and I include myself - stop pretending to know things we can't know, and have the courage to separate our knowledge from our desires, we find there is very little difference between any of us. We all have the same needs for love and for a life full of meaning and purpose.

~~cofty

How Is the christian view "pretending to know things " ?

1. What do you mean by that?

2. What reasons do you have to think that ?

He has made everything appropriate in its time . He has also put eternity in their hearts , but man cannot discover the work God has done from beginning to end.( we have limits in understanding )~~ Ecclesiastes 3:11

It's not a knowing but rather faith and trust that is "born in our hearts" from God who does know

The 'desire" for life and love is already built within our hearts..." there is no difference in us" ... so true

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

The Final simplified summary

1. Christians are stupid and illogical.

2. Therefore, Christianity is not true nor can God even exist

3. We must know all the answers now concerning God's purpose or else throw it all out (no mysteries allowed )

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

..and once the mystery of gravity is resolved, what then?

If you wish to stare far ahead to the end of your path , your journey, you may well be tripped by the stone that lies beneath your feet

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

I can accept that my limited intellect cannot understand all the universal things of God

Job 11:7
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

Ephesians 3:9
and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

My only protest, Cofty, was when someone declared on the demolition of the Christian theist God, that athiesm had won the day. We're a few steps away from that yet.

There are greater mysteries and moments of awe to consider for sure .. to expand our thoughts of wonderment

We know gravity is everywhere, even though we can't see it. We know it pulls on every rock, every grain of sand. It pulls on everything. But no one knows exactly what gravity is. That's why gravity is a mystery." !
~~~Gravity is a Mystery
"

Matter tells space how to warp. And warped space tells matter how to move"
~~~Grossman, Hilbert and Schwarzschild

Who or what has spoken and who must listen and why ?

"Light can be used to push like charges apart or pull different charges together"

What is the source of such light ? Who understands the who, what, where, and why of gravity ?

Likewise ...who can understand all the why's of God ?

Does stop believing in gravity until you understand it's mystery of why , makes sense to you ?

Demanding an answer for why gravity is ..... does nothing to change it's constant effects or actions

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

Cofty wants me to lay out my beliefs, but he wants to define the paramenters for me to do that. At the same time he was quick to say of himself ... FG

We are not discussing my spiritual journey here. If you want to start a new thread on the topic carry on.

Well that's true of me too. I am not about to spend time laying out a complete belief system to someone who has already demonstrated that they will not hesitate to rehash my words in any way that suits them, or simply add things I didn't say. Also, I have seen what happens to people who lay out their belief system in this discussion. ~~~Flamegilled

Philosophy an attempt to bridge the gap between religious convictions and facts of science.
.. to make sense , to sort out idea's. to fit into things which we do ponder...

Where Do We Come From ? What Are We ? Where Are We Going ?

It appears to me that cofty wants Christians to meet on the bridge of philosophy but to leave behind
their convictions or feelings ( facts only ) but he is allowed to bring along his hard" facts" used to mold God with emotionally charged negative attributes

How can ones spiritual journey and experiences not play into this... the very core of our belief system ?

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

caliber

It's a mystery

Go with that thought then... why do people love Mystery books ?

Mysteries get the brain working and the intellect going. Some mysteries can be very complicated.

Why not just tell everyone in chapter one .. wouldn't that save a lot of time and fuss ?

Mysteries are different than other novels because although all novels may use foreshadowing, mysteries use clues.

Foreshadowing may be a part of the clues. There are also usually twists and turns that are expected and unexpected.

Maybe God's mystery is to involve us also... to get us to thinking

however in the Christian view is much more than that is at stake here of course