yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
caliber if we are to qoute Shakespeare lets end this thread with " To be or not to be that is the question"
What Hamlet is musing on is the comparison between the pain of life, which he sees as inevitable (the sea of troubles - the slings and arrows - the heart-ache - the thousand natural shocks and the fear of the uncertainty of death... the question we are all called upon to ask & chose our course
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
This is the sort of false dichotomy that leads to convoluted thinking. It is dishonest and misleading.
Ham sandwiches exist. Eternal happiness is an unfulfilled promise; in other words nothing.
If I were you I would take the ham sandwich and waive the rest.
Faith, hope, and love, applied well, is deeply meaningful.
Most beautifully Shakespeare compares love to things of nature.. things of this world so that we might relate
to the depth of his feeling and love
William Shakespeare
Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate.
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date.
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimmed;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance, or nature's changing course, untrimmed;
But thy eternal summer shall not fade,
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st,
Nor shall death brag thou wand'rest in his shade,
When in eternal lines to Time thou grow'st.
So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
And summer is fleeting: its date is too short, and it leads to the withering of autumn, as “every fair from fair sometime declines.” The final quatrain of the sonnet tells how the beloved differs from the summer in that respect: his beauty will last forever (“Thy eternal summer shall not fade...
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
OK Glad I see your point but to take it farther then...
Can we as humans try to parallel earthly things that we observe with heavenly things or spiritual qualities ?
Eternal happiness is an unfulfilled promise; in other words nothing
faith , hope and love are they also nothing then... since we cannot eat then or touch them ?
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Its not what you think, its how you think.
Our attitude , hopes and dreams ... our dominate spirit.. influence our conclusions ?
Are you saying we think about events then draw moral conclusions based on life experience and maybe assumptions
we wish to fit in ?
I am only just trying to understand your point.. not find fault
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilatehad mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” What do you think Jesus was trying to say here?
Maybe you should consider your actions now because this life is uncertain, death can happen in almost any moment. But there no need to perish because of Christ ...be quick about repentence while you are yet alive.
I believe Jesus disentangled sin from suffering; What people suffer has no co-relation with their sins.
Yet, he definitively tied sin with salvation or failing to attain salvation.
Eden
Good point, so in otherwords not all things that appear equal are or at least can not always be understood by a simple parallel alone
a bogus proof or false conclusion... assumption.. "all accidental death is direct from God for sins"
A ham sandwich is better than nothing...
Nothing is better than eternal happiness...
Therefore...
A ham sandwich is better than eternal happiness.
I believe the word perish rather than death is no accident in the above scripture and this one ...
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)
It is essential to comprehend the difference between(1)unforeseen death and (2) judgement from God which is to perish with no future hope
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
I once had an Elder say to me as I almost reached the point of heated resentment
"Brother ... watch your spirit please !" (this would be a politeness monitor)
while I may have had a valid point or concern , I stopped in my tracks for a moment to rethink my approach.
That Elder taught me a valuable leasson... that still ring in my ears 20 years later !!!
He was right about that at least, when we lose compassion, our fellow feeling. our point is lost ,ears close ,resentment sets in ... our feeling of contempt is all that is felt and heard by others
On this thread about Bethel there is one comment, really addresses this concern "the atmosphere of Bethel "
Interview with a former Bethelite who now knows TTATT ~~Raypublisher
Note this telling observation...
It seems like so many begin to awaken after attending Bethel. I think this is due to them seeing the pharasaical and heartless cold attitudes there, as well as the general lack of any evidence of Jehovahs spirit. If it cant be found at the world headquaters of Gods only true organization, then where can it be found~~~?BU2B
Yes the atmosphere in a discussion is important too.. points are lost by in-fighting
sorry for going off topic I just felt a need to say this ... sorry
But really with this long a thread how can there not be much repetition or wandering off topic ?
So please don't shoot me cofty !!!!
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Does not God bless the effort we put forth ?
23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
Proverbs...
The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.
In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.
The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.
Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.
A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man. A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech,
Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits lacks sense.
I love the last scripture you quote...
Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. - 3 John :2
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
You never pray to get well or for help to find a job or pass an exam or housing needs or financial concerns for yourself or others?
You never ask for anything except strength? Really?
I swear to God ( Wellbeing yes ...as mentioned above )
Maybe it was upbringing but I couldn't even ask my earthly father for money for treats and a movie
I am not saying that others may not pray for some of these things ....sorry !
To bless my efforts so in that sense I guess asking for finanical success
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
Caliber - Is it safe to assume that you make requests of god? Do you ever pray for things like good health, a safe journey or protection from harm? Do you make similar requests on behalf of others ?
Intercession means you are interceding—acting in prayer—on behalf of someone else. The person may be incapable of praying for himself. Perhaps he is on drugs or mentally confused . Perhaps the person is so sick he can't muster the energy to stay awake, let alone pray.
(intercession ) ... that they may have strength and comfort to cope..
(petitionary) for wisdom and strength to face the day
The prayer of faith, also known as petition prayer, is the prayer that most people think of when they use the term "prayer." Petition prayer is between you and God. It is you asking God for a particular outcome
In Luke 22:41-42 "And He [Jesus] was withdrawn from them [Peter, James and John] about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, saying, 'Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.'"
He was praying, in effect, "If there is any other way to do this, let's do it that way." But the key for Jesus, and for us, is, "Nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."
http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/prayer/3006-god-has-an-answer
It is to be noted above that even Jesus did not presume or assume God would concede to his personal will
the Prayer of Binding and Loosing
Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Like all things in God's system, this type of prayer works only in line with God's Word and His laws. You cannot bind things willy-nilly. Binding a team to lose in the Super Bowl won't work any more than loosing someone to love you.
Any christian who does any of these things has destroyed all of your arguments over the last few pages. They believe that god intervenes daily and hourly in their lives and in the lives of millions of other christians.
Please note I am not asking how or if god answers your prayers, simply whether you make petitionary prayers. ~~Cofty
I try to express gratitude for needs of the day... I do not expect divine intervention to keep me from physical harm
"unforeseen befall them all" ... I pray for strength so in this sense I guess I pray for health and wellbeing
yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
FHN - Congratulations on your new appointment as politeness monitor.
At first ,some suggested Cofty for this position but most everyone just laughed ... why was that , do you think ?
hahahahahahahahaha !!
