caliber

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Posts by caliber

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  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  " So here we stand in darkened saddness....so silent in it's hollow victory...so absent of sweetness in it's final display!" ~~Cal

  
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  Psalm 46:1–3
  
  "God is our refuge and strength,
  a very present help in trouble.
  Therefore we will not fear though the earth should change,
  though the mountains shake in the heart of the sea;
  though its waters roar and foam,
  though the mountains tremble with its tumult."
  
  The vastness of the universe, the power of nature even here upon earth should show us
  how puny we really are.... how uncertain our lives can be. May it lead us to seek God
  and to rely upon Him
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  Cofty ...So far we have God is as murder, like a wife beater, like Josif Mengle , animal abuser ....have you tried a sadist ?

  Maybe you have inferred that also.. can you think of some new terms ?
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  ) Do you accept the possibility that there are factors involved that we are not capable of grasping? YES/NO - flamegrilled

  No. There is no possible factor that could turn the murder of a quarter of a million people and the devastation of a further 5 million into an act of love. ~~ cofty

  murder

  "the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority ."

  Please tell me you are just exaggerating to make a point... if not what was God's malice towards these people ?
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  Caliber, the frame analogy doesn't apply to Cofty since what some people have been doing it trying to change the picture. He's asking for an explanation for the picture, some people are trying to describe a different picture.

  The picture is of an unloving, uncaring God so yes I guess I am guilty , if I want to "wander off" in an effort to

  show otherwise

  

  guilty!!!!!
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  Caliber, wouldn't the answer to get a complete picture be to simply put the frame down or move it around ?

  Then tell cofty that ... rather than him calling everyone "off topic "... thus you get my point , in a left handed way at least....

  the topic is framed too tight

  The sky within this artist frame of reference (which he tolds upward to the heavens) cannot give a complete picture ( understanding ) of all that is above so why not move the frame around ? (good additional point )

  But in some sports or card games they play by home field rules... this is cofty home field
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  1) Do you believe we have every fact necessary to reach a logical conclusion on this matter?

  2) Do you accept the possibility that there are factors involved that we are not capable of grasping?

  It does not mean that the higher being (should He exist) is unloving, simply because we cannot reconcile the information available to us and explain a clear answer in human terms. ~~ flamegilled

  Most excellence points

  And since you seem determined to keep this thread tight, so that I cannot bring in additional evidence for God ........

  

  results ......The sky within this artist frame of reference (which he tolds upward to the heavens) cannot give a complete picture ( understanding )of all that is above
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  

  sometimes It's more complex than this to figure out
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  If all christians comply with Jesus' words to petition god for things, and imitate John by praying that god bless and prosper others, then god is active every second of every day responding to millions of requests. ~~cofty

  Pray for all things within the scope of personal needs i.e. good health.. wellbeing. to go beyond that and interfer with natural law of events is not within God's present purpose. Just because you pray for others to prosper does it guarantee that natural evil is not allow to befall them ?

  Cofty calls this tempory Deism

  I feel this is unfair to label christians this way because for many believers there is moral and righteous purpose both for immediate action by God and for what appears to be delayed action.

  Even the Demons know of a timetable
  Luke 4:34), .... "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
  
  intervening in the short-term likely interferes with the prognosis for the success of the long-term 'treatment ~~Adamah
  
  Critical elements of deist thought included: ( God has a purpose for man )
  
  Rejection of religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
  Rejection of religious dogma and demagogy.
  Skepticism of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious "mysteries".
  
  Constructive elements of deist thought included: (God's only purpose for man is autonomy )

  Autonomy auto- "self" + νόμος nomos, "law", hence when combined understood to mean "one who gives oneself one's own law")
  
  God exists and created the universe.
  God gave humans the ability to reason.
  
  How many times have Atheist told believers not to label them with the assumption that they are but one unified group ? ( even on this thread Cofty mentions that he and Adamah are both Atheist but that is where there common thoughts end ... )

  It is unfortunate that people may think that Adam and I are on the "same side" because neither of us believe in god.
  
  I hope that discerning readers will notice that Adam and I have nothing in else common. ~~cofty
  
  Do you think Cofty, it is possible that you are not discerning the difference in Christians for no doubt some do believe that things are altered in the material because of prayers to God ?

  If god answers even one of those prayers it destroys the argument that god was not in the intervention business on 26th December 2004 ( You assume that God not only answers personal prays but that He will actually alter events to bring these about... is this a realistic hope or the thought or promise that God has made in scriptures ? ~~ cofty

  I don't beleive this assumption... that all prayers are valid and equal in the eyes of God

  John 15:7 contains two conditions for answered prayer: we must "remain in Christ" and His words must remain in us
  
  Many Christians know God has a timeframe and long term purpose. If we know accept the words of Peter below , how can you be said to" remain in Christ "and his words by demainding something beyond personal needs ? Most Christians these two kinds of prayers are vastly different
  asking for comfort and strength verse trying to alter world events. most Christians discern that it is beyond God's present scope of things to provide

  a miracle for personal escape

  (Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you , even as your soul is getting along well." - 3 John :2)
  
  
  2 Peter 3:9 (KJ21)
  9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
  
  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)
  
  Discern long term effects and objectives
• 
  2596

  The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

  by cofty in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

  we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

  they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  caliber

  Caliber you were champion of the theory that this is not the time for god to intervene in human affairs.

  My final reply to your point got lost among Adam's intervention.

  When you get a minute please click here and let me know what your response is.

  cofty you have been very patient with on this....it is ironic this is a great factor in some of the thoughts I am thinking about regarding

  God's "inaction " as you put it. I am going out at the moment also I have been distracted by other issues and thoughts on

  this thread. Don't give up though !!!!

  When you get a minute... your gentle request is very appealing to me