Posts by Tornintwo

35

Hey! Wanted to say Hi!

by Miss Worldly in

jw
friends

hey!

i've been hanging around her for a while.

this is the third attempt at my 'hello'.

Tornintwo

Hi and welcome - we love 'worldlies' here! x

10

Neglect of Adolescents by the WTBTS - Excellent Article

by Tornintwo in

i have been thinking a lot about the lack of support, judgement and criticism of teenagers in the organisation.

i am dealing with the fallout of these policies with my two adolescents...i found this excellent article this morning which is worth a read for anyone interested in this topic - see the links below but first i also wanted to add my own bugbear, forgive the rant: .

a key factor which isn't mentioned in the article is the 'bad association' rule and it's extended application.

Tornintwo

I have been thinking a lot about the lack of support, judgement and criticism of teenagers in the organisation. I am dealing with the fallout of these policies with my two adolescents...I found this excellent article this morning which is worth a read for anyone interested in this topic - see the links below but first I also wanted to add my own bugbear, forgive the rant:

A key factor which isn't mentioned in the article is the 'bad association' rule and it's extended application. Firstly we have 'bad associations' in the world, so JW kids are told they shouldn't/can't associate with any children who are not 'Jehovah's friends' - school & neighbourhood friendships which form naturally in a normal setting are stunted, not able to progress to any real friendship with it's advantages of support and nurturing, because the witness kids can't go to the other kid's house or party or get-together.

Then we have the extended application - there are 'bad assocations' also in 'the truth'!!! 'beware anyone who is not spiritually strong' , 'be prepared to report on your friends to the elders' etc etc.. This leads to an atmosphere of judgement and suspicion between youths in the congregation and their parents. Time and again I have seen a teenager begin to waver, to be tempted by the 'world' - instead of pulling them into the heart of the congregation with love and support, the witnesses first response is to criticise. For example, one boy of 15 changed his haircut to a more 'worldly' style and started to exhibit a bit of attitude (all the while still regular in service, meetings and answers) - but this was all it took - gradually the witness invitations dried up....he's already struggling to resist the 'temptation' of hanging out with his other friends from school who are telling him how great he is and how much they want to spend more time with him - so what happens when the congregation members judge him as a bad assocation? According to WTBTS he should go home and pray more, maybe try to make friends with some brother in his 30s or 40s instead (weird). Totally unrealistic advice. Of course he's lonely and feels rejected, after weeks of sitting alone crying and praying, he finally starts to rebel against his parents' stand and hang out with his 'worldly' friends (how dare he!). Then what is the institutional response by this 'loving' community? The witness friends reject him completely, harsh discipline sometimes follows and either way the shunning begins.

The Watchtower has created an atmosphere for young people of judgementalism, criticism, suspicion, it wants youths to be subservient robot drones in order for them to be accepted. They are not permitted to explore their unique attributes or abilities (hence the ban on extracurricular acivities and higher education). It forces false friendships based on hierarchy & status in the congregation and shamelessly neglects the 'fatherless boys'. There are no organised social events or youth clubs, instead the emphasis is put on parents to arrange such, those parents who are already exhausted from the endless demands of meetings, ministry, family study, bible reading etc etc... Elders want their kids to be friends with other elders' kids, pioneers etc and so on and so on... The society's response - they would rather pioneers spend 70 hours driving in circles and knocking on empty doors in the service each month than a few hours encouraging the current young members of the congregation. They have got it SO, SO wrong - hence the hemorrhaging of young people from the organisation.

It would only be a good thing if it didn't leave such awful emotional scars and neglect vulnerable young people.

Read the full article here: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/young-ones-leaving.php

Some of the interesting paragraphs:

At what point do they begin to ask themselves if there is something that THEY are doing wrong? Ironically, they can’t do that, because the organization has already been identified and branded as a “spiritual banquet” where “nothing is lacking”. Therefore, if young people are uninspired, bored, or unmotivated to engage in the theocratic treadmill, Jehovah's Witnesses can simply blame it on the influences of MTV, high school, or on their favorite buzzword: the “world”.

It should be noted that the Soviets used the same methods of argumentation and reasoning – claiming that nothing was lacking in Mother Russia. Strangely, their newspapers only had good news to publish about the Soviet government, and only had bad news to report about Western democracies. If anyone defected, the leaders simply blamed it on American influence, the defector’s lack of gratitude, or on some horrible personal defect of the defector. Does this sound familiar?

...........................

Beside simple boredom, what we also see in the Watchtower organization are many emotionally troubled people and single parent families who join the religion for the promises of relief that it holds out for them. In situations such as this, I have often noticed that the kids don’t have much in the way of emotional support and guidance. Other churches give single parents some relief by offering activities and programs for their children to get involved in and bond with other young people. I have seen many really good kids in the organization totally get neglected because they didn’t have a father who was a Witness. Many of them had some very deep emotional issues that never got resolved. Additionally, it has been noted by many of us that when there is a family in which the father does not hold some kind of office, the family is often left out on the periphery without much social support. I have observed that children in families like this most often never thrive, and are swiftly on their way out by the time they reach teenage years.

......................................

With the recent crack-downs on college education, the Watchtower is looking less and less like a spiritual paradise, and is looking more like North Korea. What we see from regimes like North Korea is a disregard for many of the societal endeavors that make a nation stronger, such as infrastructure, good universities, economic freedoms, and democratic processes. Instead, all of the nation’s human capital is invested in one thing: warfare. The leader Kim Jong is so deluded that his idea of inspiring his people is to walk out on his balcony with his huge Elvis glasses and clap his hands. The Watchtower organization’s sole purpose is to proselytize, whereby all of its human capital must be channeled into that goal. Other programs that would make for a much stronger, robust, and enthusiastic membership are pushed aside and dismissed due their possibly interfering with proselytizing. Much like Kim Jong walking out and clapping his hands, the Watchtower’s idea of motivating its people is to deliver talks denouncing college, Watchtower articles ridiculing those who disagree with them, and the repetitive promise that the end is “just around the corner”. Are you inspired yet?

..............................

Those few born-in Jehovah's Witnesses who do stay in will pay an enormous price in that they will never have gotten to know who they really were. For them to stay in the organization and have an approved standing, they will have had to squash their inner self, and adopt an organizationally-created identity. Many will have had to cover over passions and talents that would have given their lives much greater meaning. Many of us here paid that price, only to wake up to it years later. But fortunately, after having been out for a number of years, many of us are getting to know who we really are and what gives our lives meaning.

71

Call For Children To Get Baptised From CO

by freemindfade in

so i've been pretty good at not going to meetings lately.

yesterday i went for the co's last talks.

older co. his last talk was absolutely shocking.

Tornintwo

I would love to hear a recording of this talk and put it on the web for all hear the spiritual abuse.

71

Call For Children To Get Baptised From CO

by freemindfade in

so i've been pretty good at not going to meetings lately.

yesterday i went for the co's last talks.

older co. his last talk was absolutely shocking.

Tornintwo

OMG when you hear these things doesn't it just confirm that you are right to leave?!?

A major factor in my waking up was hearing a prominent elder giving a talk which confirmed that all children of none-believers would be destroyed. During the same week he gave a field service group and he mentioned a news story where a number of children had been shot in a school, he said 'we are looking for people who are sighing and groaning over these kind of terrible news stories so that we can give them the good news about the kingdom'

I was looking around at everyone who had just a few days heard his 'millions of kids will die at armageddon' public talk, they were just nodding and agreeing whilst I was totally incredulous, like - "does no-one else see the irony?!??"

25

Hartlepool UK JW groomed girl for sex

by wifibandit in

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/crime/jehovah-s-witness-from-hartlepool-groomed-girl-for-sex-1-7504907.

Tornintwo

That's terrible. Couldnt you go forward and tell the police what you know, ask to remain anonymous to the families involved , but then the police would hopefully investigate and maybe the girls would be moved to tell them what happened. If there is sexual assault in his history the police should be made aware.

33

A new member

by Kurteousmaximus in

hi... i am new and after nearly 20 years after being disassociated at 15 i would like to make contact with others who have similar difficulties.

my mother was disfellowshipped shortly after my rebellion and had all ties with both her mother and brother cut and that remains the case.. just really hacked off with not being able to put things in the proper place in my life after all these years.

for the record i don't know if i believe in god but am searching for some peace as i seem to self destruct on a regular basis.. any ideas anyone?.

Tornintwo

Hi KM - so nice to see you here.

I am quite a new member too, (appx 6 months) - I came into the 'troof' at 15 and am leaving 25 years later - I think you got it the right way round.

I raised 2 kids in this stupid religion and it has messed with both their heads, they are feeling the fallout now of not being allowed to be normal, something I regret and both are having issues in one way or another, which I am trying to help them with. So I can really understand how you could still have difficulties now if you didn't deal properly with the cult mind control and the sense of loss when you left way back when.

As you've seen from the other posters - there is great advice and support here, plus some laughs, its so nice to see lively debate when we come from a place where we couldn't question things.

On the faith side, I feel there is a God which gives me comfort and I think Jesus teachings are beautiful & everyone should try to live by them, but I don't feel I have to have all the answers anymore and I am keeping an open mind as I take in info from all sides - I hope that helps a bit.

Welcome and hugs, have a great weekend with your kids x

14

Found Nephew. Sisters incredible reaction.

by umbertoecho in

i won't make this long.

i went out again and found him.

got in through the back door, pushed him to wake up, got him out, fed him, watered him and said he was family and i have a plan.. we talked all day, i let him do what he does, in order not to scare him about the future change that could happen for him.

Tornintwo

You're a wonderful person, sending hugs across the miles, well done finding and helping your nephew, I hope and pray the treatment succeeds.

What self centered narrow minded people the org. breeds.

Lets hope he gets well and becomes a healthy, happy, balanced and educated individual, free from cult guilt and fear

120

The right to shun - wrong?

by Simon in

many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.

it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.

of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.

Tornintwo

Mickey mouse said it all - its the organisational encouragement of shunning, even within families, even shunning of vulnerable young people by close family members - by a CHARITY. This has got to a problem area for any charity watchdog.

65

Introducing...ME

by Heartsafire in

jw
friends

long time lurker here.

i'm a fifth gen born-in baptized jw.

to say i've been struggling with doubts is an understatement.

Tornintwo

dear heartsafire - welcome what a brilliant first post!

Doest it feel great to finally acknowledge those doubts, listen to them and research your way out of the 'guilt laden fog' of WT teachings!

I am new here too, just 6 months since I finally acknowledged my doubts and was brave enough to look at 'Apostate' websites - jwfacts.com has been great for me, it confirmed my own suspicions but opened me up to a lot more inconsistencies too. Also Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom are MUST reads. You will get great advice on here and I agree its so freeing to laugh at the irreverent posts about the GB etc, when we've been so careful for so long about what we should and shouldn't say.

I have a zealous husband too, but thankfully, we are both converts so our parents and extended family are not JWs. I started telling him my doubts by asking him sincere questions about the child abuse cover ups, why only witnesses will survive (1 in 1000) , family shunning, bad treatment of others by 'appointed' ones etc.. etc.. - as I researched I told him more and more (UN, Malawi, false prophecies) and the walls came up, he got very angry/upset and said he can't hear anything more negative about the society. He arranged a shepherding call for me with the C.O. and I managed to come across as sincere and doubting. I've faded fast, now not attending (maybe once a month only) on the positive side, my husband really doesnt want me to get df'd and is committed to protecting me from that. We've had issues over our kids mainly but thats a whole other story.

I feel for those so much who are 2nd generation or more - that is a whole lot of family and community to lose. You will get good advice on here on fading slowly (depression/anxiety excuse works for missing meetings), using sincere questions to get your husband to think and how to sidestep a grilling from the elders.

even if you can't be totally free because of your family - at least your mind is free

lots of love x

36

Child Discipline, new article to address Jackson's Royal Commission testimony

by jwfacts in

i have published a new article at watchtower corporal punishment, as a response to the testimony that geoff jackson gave at the royal commission.

it includes the relevant part of the transcript, along with a string of watchtower quotes to show that what he presented was not accurate, and that watchtower translates rod as a literal implement to hit children with.

.

Tornintwo

Just skimmed so far but as usual looks thorough and brilliant research.

I just want to say thank you, I woke up about 6 months ago and I turned away from other hysterical/ bitter websites before I found yours (recommended on here) which is so balanced, reasonable & logical, it crystalised my doubts and revealed many more inconsistencies about the WTBTS. Thank you for all of your hard work and research allowing me to think clearly again and come out of the guilt laden fog I was in.

i would love to see more from the commission testimony on your site, especially re the infamous 'presumptuous' for which you already have the perfect WT quote on your site:

"Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 Jun 1 p.16