Posts by Tornintwo

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Tornintwo

Surely this now means anyone can just walk away and not face consequences,from now on if anyone is chased by the 'spiritual policemen' they can produce this document :

The policies and practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not require any individual who no longer wants to be subject to their “rules and discipline” to formally disassociate themselves. They can simply stop associating with the congregation. Such individuals are not shunned.
1. For example, Mr Geoffrey Jackson stated:283 “I thought I made it quite clear I don’t agree with that supposition”. We do not have a “so-called spiritual police force” to chase after ones who no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
2. For example, Mr O’Brien stated: 284 “They don’t have to disassociate themselves to stop associating. They don’t lose their spiritual or familial association by being inactive.”

20

Just put on ARC website: submissions of senior counsel

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=359d7249-0d4f-4c51-9265-1c40aa6b3b21&type=transcriptpdf&filename=submissions-of-senior-counsel-assisting-the-royal-commission&fileextension=pdf.

just having a quick read through, the findings are damning.

mr toole is being reported to the law society of australia.... a few highlights so far:.

Tornintwo

Oops didn't see the other thread, thanks everyone for getting this out there

20

Just put on ARC website: submissions of senior counsel

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=359d7249-0d4f-4c51-9265-1c40aa6b3b21&type=transcriptpdf&filename=submissions-of-senior-counsel-assisting-the-royal-commission&fileextension=pdf.

just having a quick read through, the findings are damning.

mr toole is being reported to the law society of australia.... a few highlights so far:.

Tornintwo

Sorry about the weird formatting, I hope the media picks up on this

20

Just put on ARC website: submissions of senior counsel

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=359d7249-0d4f-4c51-9265-1c40aa6b3b21&type=transcriptpdf&filename=submissions-of-senior-counsel-assisting-the-royal-commission&fileextension=pdf.

just having a quick read through, the findings are damning.

mr toole is being reported to the law society of australia.... a few highlights so far:.

Tornintwo

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/downloadfile.ashx?guid=359d7249-0d4f-4c51-9265-1c40aa6b3b21&type=transcriptpdf&filename=Submissions-of-Senior-Counsel-Assisting-the-Royal-Commission&fileextension=pdf

Just having a quick read through, the findings are damning. Mr Toole is being reported to the law society of Australia...

A few highlights so far:

The practices and procedures of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation for the prevention of child sexual abuse, and in particular for the management of the risk of an abuser reoffending, do not take account of the actual risk of an offender reoffending and accordingly place children in the organisation at significant risk of sexual abuse.

F70 The Jehovah’s Witness organisation’s policy of requiring its adherents to actively shun those who leave the organisation:

makes it extremely difficult for someone to leave the organisation
b) is cruel on those who leave and on their friends and family who remain behind
c) is particularly cruel on those who have suffered child sexual abuse in the organisation and

who wish to leave because they feel that their complaints about it have not been

adequately dealt with
d) is not apparently justified by the Scriptures which are cited in support of it
e) is adopted and enforced in order to prevent people from leaving the organisation and

thereby to maintain its membership, and
f) is in conflict with the organisation’s professed support for freedom of religious choice

and the belief that Jehovah God is a compassionate God who recognises the worth and dignity of all human beings

20

UPDATE APRIL 2015 New Documents Re: Charity Commission Investigation into Watchtower Britain

by jwleaks in

an updated list of documents relating to the charity commission investigation into watchtower of britain and jehovah's witnesses are available on jw leaks.. jw leaks.

original charity commission press release.

press release.

Tornintwo

I would say anyone with personal close experience of child abuse, family shunning, shunning leading to depression or suicide etc. should without doubt contact the charity commission. everyone else from uk should write a concerned citizen letter about the same issues....

you would have thought if the charity commission has enough damning evidence then they would recommend the witnesses be included in the next round of the national child sexual abuse investigation.

72

My RC hearing brought forward. Will be in two weeks

by umbertoecho in

through this forum of wonderful freaks, i have met someone who is coming with me to my hearing.

initially i was slated for next year, but will be attending in two weeks time.

all is in place from travel vouchers, support, where to go ............very efficient and well done.

Tornintwo

I hope we don't have to wait years for the ARC findings, A preliminary report would very good soon and in my view necessary, to force a change in the practices such as the 2 witness rule as soon as possible to protect other victims, and to inform the public and the ignorant rank and file witnesses.

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Tornintwo

Thanks for all the responses, some pure conjecture of course...

the point Lisa Rose and others make about lack of transparency is very thought provoking though...why aren't they transparent? why so many different corporations etc?

I knew of an affinity fraud by a 'brother' who fleeced a lot of witnesses of their life savings before being disfellowshipped thankfully, but, he was never prosecuted despite various attempts. Why? Because he had lots bank accounts and companies in different countries, the police couldn't track all the money successfully and prove fraud, they didn't have the resources and jurisdiction wasn't certain....sound familiar?

what is alarming is that there can be any legal charity which isn't fully transparent about its finances

72

My RC hearing brought forward. Will be in two weeks

by umbertoecho in

through this forum of wonderful freaks, i have met someone who is coming with me to my hearing.

initially i was slated for next year, but will be attending in two weeks time.

all is in place from travel vouchers, support, where to go ............very efficient and well done.

Tornintwo

Umberto, it's great to have you back I love your posts. Well done, you are so brave. There are great suggestions on here already, re background checks, mandatory reporting, etc. also no known abuser should EVER be allowed d2d or privileges.

I really don't see it as unreasonable to look at their tax exempt status considering their lack of protection for victims, but protection of the perpetrators and their disfellowshipping and shunning policies, particularly in families. We are talking about an organisation that in some cases, has ignored abuse victims and left them and other children in danger of further abuse, protected and even promoted the abuser, refused to report to the authorities, and then when the child grows up and understandably leaves the religion, subjected such child to institutional shunning even from family.

Not to mention general shunning, discouragement of higher education, disdain for non witnesses, lack of genuine charitable works etc. etc.

How can they justify charitable Status?

one more suggestion, a national database online where any householder can register their desire not to be called on by witnesses

31

Still feel weird about things....

by FeelingFree in

so i'm loving the fact that my little one gets to be a "normal" child and take part in everything at school.

however i still have that stupid niggling in the back of my head that she shouldn't be doing it and it's wrong etc.

at the moment she is rehearsing for the nativity play and keeps singing the songs at home (she is going to be an angel!

Tornintwo

HI feeling free, your experience resonates so much with me! It's like it's great to be free but there is this nagging doubt pulling you back into the fear and guilt. Xanthippes post has it spot on I am sure, cult programming fades over time.

i have teens and a toddler, I am so happy because my older girl is doing a Xmas play for her drama course and both the older ones are in a concert with their music school, my little one is making Xmas cards in nursery, for the first time we don't have to explain their non-involvement to teachers and my kids don't feel left out and weird! For me Xmas isn't about Jesus, it's too commercial, but the community and family part is great fun!

50

The money question...

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i am intrigued to know if there is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the jehovah's witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?.

whilst i disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, i don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top.

yes you could say that the gb are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving bentleys.

Tornintwo

I am intrigued to know if there Is truly any evidence of financial irregularities in the Jehovah's Witness organisation or if any one or group are raking off funds or benefitting financially...?

whilst I disagree wholeheartedly with most of their teachings and practices, dogmatism, legalism and superiority complex, I don't honestly think there's anyone making millions at the top. Yes you could say that the GB are comfortably off, don't have to pay bills etc but they do actually get up in the morning and 'work', they aren't going off in private jets to tropical islands or driving Bentleys.

I suspect it's more of a power trip for them than a wealth trip. The thought of 8million people hanging on your every word must be enticing for them, and they probably believe their own hype that they are gods chosen ones, christs brothers etc... Ray Franz never mentioned financial issues in his books and I would have thought he had the perfect opportunity to highlight any corruption of that type.

Whilst I think there's better ways of spending millions of charitable donations than on a new state of the art headquarters, I doubt there's anyone fleecing, surely if there was they would have taken the money and run before they had to stop charging for the books, or before the publishing downturn....

But if you have evidence to the contrary I for one would love to hear it....?!?