Thanks splash, was hoping the UK press would pick up on it
Tornintwo
JoinedPosts by Tornintwo
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News item in Sweden on Child abuse Royal commission Australia
by InquiryMan inalready on its first day of hearing, this case makes headlines on the other side of the globe.
swedish regional newspaper carries this coverage:.
http://www.vk.se/1496701/jehovas-vittnen-dolde-sexovergrepp.
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The Australian Royal Commission hearings on the JWs handling of child abuse begins here in the US later today. It will be streamed.
by AndersonsInfo inthe royal commission hearing starting on monday, july 27, 2015 - australian day and date - (and it could go on until august 7th depending on how many witnesses testify) regarding jehovah's witnesses handling of child abuse is supposed to be streamed.. it could be that the hearing will only be audio not video although we were informed it will be streamed.
we'll find out in a few hours.. i live in the central time zone of the us and right now here it is sunday, 3: 45 pm.
in sydney, australia, it is 15 hours ahead of us.
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Tornintwo
Where can you read transcripts? Any links...?
imagining the cult responses of the die-hard...
'that was years ago, we have different procedures in place now'
answer a) didn't Jehovah appoint this organisation in 1919, surely he's powerful enough to keep his organization clean of this kind of abhorrent abuse? After all Jehovah doesn't change so why couldn't he have the right policies in place from the start.
b) yes, I believe the commission will be examining the current procedures from the elders handbook (heavy sarcasm)
'Local elders made mistakes'
answer: 1006 cases not reported by the police? That's just in Australia, doesn't sound like local mistakes, sounds like there may be a policy issue.
'don't believe everything your hear, they are 'worldly' courts'
answer, aren't the authorities put in their positions by Jehovah, aren't we taught to be in subjection to them, doesnt the witness organisation appeal to these same 'worldly' courts when they want to establish their legal rights?
Anymore ideas?
Wonder what will be said in morning worship at the Australian bethel?
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The Australian Royal Commission hearings on the JWs handling of child abuse begins here in the US later today. It will be streamed.
by AndersonsInfo inthe royal commission hearing starting on monday, july 27, 2015 - australian day and date - (and it could go on until august 7th depending on how many witnesses testify) regarding jehovah's witnesses handling of child abuse is supposed to be streamed.. it could be that the hearing will only be audio not video although we were informed it will be streamed.
we'll find out in a few hours.. i live in the central time zone of the us and right now here it is sunday, 3: 45 pm.
in sydney, australia, it is 15 hours ahead of us.
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Tornintwo
They have the elders manual and are using it to disprove many of the answers by this elder.
He says its now accepted to have the witness not face the accuser in a JC, they bring out the book to show that it doesn't say that unless they live a great distance away. He said they can have a parent or someone else present for moral support, they show the book does not state that. They also highlight the instructions in the book to 'put the accused at ease' whilst there is no counsel to assist the accuser/victim.
Having the book examined and quoted in the public domain will be very revealing to the world and I am sure maddening for the GB.
This elder is probably very, very glad that the day is over.
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Update on Royal Commission
by umbertoecho inpaedophiles repeatedly promoted to positions of authority in jehovahs witness church royal commission told.
1 hour ago july 27, 2015 12:45pm.
counsel assisting the royal commission, angus stewart sc has told the royal commission that church elders could now face criminal charges.
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Tornintwo
It's definitely only Australia because in the context it mentions the member of JWs being 70000 there.
as a statistic this works out as 1.42% of the current membership (1000 cases), if it is similar ratio across the world then it would be 113600 cases of 8million current members. I always thought the Bill Bowen/Barbara Anderson claims about the U.S. Bethel Database of child abusers must be exaggerated (think they claimed 20-30k names) but this shows it could well be an underestimation!
its clear this commission got access to the files, hope that they can do the same in the USA and UK.
Poor victims, this is just disgusting, this report this morning has finished my faith in this organisation completely, these victims have had to go to 'worldly courts' to finally have their voices heard. Cases unreported, abusers reinstated and reappointed, or appointed, victims grilled in front of abusers.....Jehovah cannot be with the witnesses.
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Media headline:Jehovah's Witnesses did not report 1006 alleged sex abusers to police, royal commission told
by fulltimestudent incheck it for yourself: .
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/jehovahs-witnesses-did-not-report-1006-alleged-sex-abusers-to-police-royal-commission-told-20150727-gil1u7.
not a good look!.
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Tornintwo
Wow, over a 1000 cases unreported, abusers appointed as elders, abusers reinstated and reappointed! This investigation clearly got hold of the files!! If only they'd do that in the states and UK.
heartbreaking for the victims, what does it say that they had to go to 'worldly' courts to get justice.
well, nail in coffin for this doubter, Jehovah's spirit CANNOT be with this organisation.
hope other countries media pick up on this.
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The Report - BBC Radio 4 about Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse can now be heard
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs.
the report about child abuse and jehovah's witnesses is now live.. jehovah's witnesses handle child abuse cases.
jehovah's witnesses and child sexual abuse, the report - bbc radio 4 .
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Tornintwo
I talked to a c.o. About these reports and the responses were
'dont believe everything you hear in the news' and you know there is a saying among journalists 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'.
then when the high court decision came out against jws, in London bethel morning worship they apparently told the bethelite, 'don't believe everything you read/hear' and told them that the complainant was 'an apostate'.
my answers:' if this story was about the Catholic Church you would be lapping it up' And, 'that girl is a victim!'
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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Tornintwo
When I was 18 my now husband and I came very close to committing fornication and were reproved for 'pornea', I sat in a room with 3 elders who asked me where he put his member, if it was hard, etc etc.... I can't believe now that I went along with it, I remember thinking, 'this is a bit weird' but I was wholeheartedly convinced i had the truth and just wanted to confess and have it over and done with.
I look back now I have 2 daughters and think I would never, ever ,ever allow either one of them to go through that, thinking back at the slow methodical, intrusive and unnecessary nature of questioning and the semi-smirks on their faces I am convinced eat least 2 were aroused.
Other posters are right, how many girls have gone through this procedure? Must be thousands!!! What would the media say if they got hold of this? It's absolutely outrageous. Wish someone would tape it happening then there'd be a real story.
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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Tornintwo
With regard to identifying the elders, the victim Karen Morgan works with Cedars, maybe you could email her for the names, although it was years ago so they may have died
http://jwsurvey.org/contact-us -
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How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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Tornintwo
This case and one in Moston, Manchester where the victims of abuse were grilled in front of their abuser are both now the subject of an investigation by the Charities commission in the UK, which has also launched an investigation into the JWs General charity in UK over its safeguarding policies. It will be very interesting to see the results, which will hopefully at the least prevent this kind of questioning by non professional males of abuse survivors. Believed by many to be as bad as repeating the abuse.
there is a Wales TV documentary on this case too:
Also on YouTube,
what struck me in addition to the obvious abuse, cover up and grilling covered on the original thread was the treatment of the girl and her dad afterwards. She was disfellowshipped later (who can blame her for leaving the organization after this treatment) and he wanted to walk her down the aisle at her wedding years on, as a support and celebration of her recovery from abuse, for this he 'got into trouble' with the congregation, it's not clear whether he was df'd or da'd. How disgusting! They should have been celebrating with her that she recovered from this horrific experience and was starting her own family, but all they can do is judge.
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Ray Franz and You.
by John Aquila inif ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.
would we have come this far?.
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Tornintwo
I was recommended COC on this site just a couple of months ago. It did a great deal to unravel my faith in the GB, it's clear from the book that they weren't making decisions based on Holy Spirit and were dangerously intrusive into people's lives. I also had no idea about the Malawi/Mexico hypocrisy which was horrifying.
i wish someone new would do the same as Ray, to have an up to date perspective, a higher up in bethel or GB, especially would love to know more about the financial aspects.