Posts by Tornintwo

27

Australia Evidence List is public and contains Elders Book

by Skidmarks in

there is so much information on the website of the hearing.

you can find the full transcripts of each day there as pdf.. but also the evidence list is very interresting.

it contains many confidential letters from congregations but also from the hq to branch offices.. the full list can be seen here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

Tornintwo

Skid marks, I had the same thoughts.

its quite amazing to see the religion through the eyes of these well educated investigators.

I was indoctrinated all these years into thinking we don't make man made rules like the Pharisees and we don't have titles or a hierarchy because everyone is equal, elders are there to serve. Seeing the reality there in black and white that it's 'a rule bound organization obsessed with sinning and with a highly centralized hierarchical structure'- its just so obvious now, I'm fuming with myself for not seeing it sooner!

27

Australia Evidence List is public and contains Elders Book

by Skidmarks in

there is so much information on the website of the hearing.

you can find the full transcripts of each day there as pdf.. but also the evidence list is very interresting.

it contains many confidential letters from congregations but also from the hq to branch offices.. the full list can be seen here: http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.

Tornintwo

Wow, there are so many confidential letters on there from NY to Australia etc, instructions to service committees, flowcharts on handling a use accusations.

ive just read a few and one thing is very clear, their emphasis is on maintaining confidentiality and avoiding reporting to authorities if at all possible, only if reporting is mandatory do they then instruct elders to make a report to the authorities. It is all about what they have to do by law and can avoid if at all possible using ecclesiastical privilege etc, nothing about how the victim may need support In taking a matter like that to the authorities.

Also, several times it mentions that elders are the ones to establish if there is any truth in the accusation. Hopefully the commission will establish that they're woefully inadequate to make that judgement.

the GB must be horrified that all these docs are now in the public domain.

10

CNN Video: Royal Commission's querry into JWs sexual abuse cases

by ScenicViewer in

i'm not sure if this will be embedded or clickable, but this cnn video is a good one.. http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/28/australia-jehovah-witness-sex-abuse-hannigan-lklv.cnn.

edit: looks like the link is clickable, but if someone knows how to embed it please do.

.

Tornintwo

Wow great report, hope as many JWs see it as possible! The reporters need emphasise though that this is Australia only, how many other unreported pedophile cases are lurking in Bethels all over the world.

i am totally shocked, I didn't think it was this bad.

its finished me off in this religion, I feel set free, no need to look back and wonder if gods spirit might be with these people, it's clearly not.

12

All three parts of the July 27th Royal Commission Hearing are on Watchtower Documents Website

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.youtube.com/channel/ucavrp6e1aymhbf7yueukkxw.

all three segments of day one are on my website and youtube channel.. .

barbara .

Tornintwo

Thank you and well done.

shame these can't play automatically straight after someone watches the July JW broadcasting, show the difference between their public condemnation of child abuse and the reality of how they have completely mishandled it when it's happened in their congregations, adding to the suffering of innocent victims.

40

Update on Royal Commission

by umbertoecho in

paedophiles repeatedly promoted to positions of authority in jehovahs witness church royal commission told.

1 hour ago july 27, 2015 12:45pm.

counsel assisting the royal commission, angus stewart sc has told the royal commission that church elders could now face criminal charges.

Tornintwo

They got the documents with a summons, this from the opening submissions paper:

Watchtower Australia produced some 5,000 documents pursuant to summonses issued by the Royal Commission on 4 and 28 February 2015. Those documents include 1,006 case files relating to allegations of child sexual abuse made against members of the Jehovah’s Witness Church in Australia since 1950 – each file for a different alleged perpetrator of child sexual abuse

wondering of the bethelites in other countries have got the shredders out? But that would look even worse, wouldn't it?

11

News item in Sweden on Child abuse Royal commission Australia

by InquiryMan in

already on its first day of hearing, this case makes headlines on the other side of the globe.

swedish regional newspaper carries this coverage:.

http://www.vk.se/1496701/jehovas-vittnen-dolde-sexovergrepp.

Tornintwo

Thanks splash, was hoping the UK press would pick up on it

56

The Australian Royal Commission hearings on the JWs handling of child abuse begins here in the US later today. It will be streamed.

by AndersonsInfo in

the royal commission hearing starting on monday, july 27, 2015 - australian day and date - (and it could go on until august 7th depending on how many witnesses testify) regarding jehovah's witnesses handling of child abuse is supposed to be streamed.. it could be that the hearing will only be audio not video although we were informed it will be streamed.

we'll find out in a few hours.. i live in the central time zone of the us and right now here it is sunday, 3: 45 pm.

in sydney, australia, it is 15 hours ahead of us.

Tornintwo

Where can you read transcripts? Any links...?

imagining the cult responses of the die-hard...

'that was years ago, we have different procedures in place now'

answer a) didn't Jehovah appoint this organisation in 1919, surely he's powerful enough to keep his organization clean of this kind of abhorrent abuse? After all Jehovah doesn't change so why couldn't he have the right policies in place from the start.

b) yes, I believe the commission will be examining the current procedures from the elders handbook (heavy sarcasm)

'Local elders made mistakes'

answer: 1006 cases not reported by the police? That's just in Australia, doesn't sound like local mistakes, sounds like there may be a policy issue.

'don't believe everything your hear, they are 'worldly' courts'

answer, aren't the authorities put in their positions by Jehovah, aren't we taught to be in subjection to them, doesnt the witness organisation appeal to these same 'worldly' courts when they want to establish their legal rights?

Anymore ideas?

Wonder what will be said in morning worship at the Australian bethel?

56

The Australian Royal Commission hearings on the JWs handling of child abuse begins here in the US later today. It will be streamed.

by AndersonsInfo in

the royal commission hearing starting on monday, july 27, 2015 - australian day and date - (and it could go on until august 7th depending on how many witnesses testify) regarding jehovah's witnesses handling of child abuse is supposed to be streamed.. it could be that the hearing will only be audio not video although we were informed it will be streamed.

we'll find out in a few hours.. i live in the central time zone of the us and right now here it is sunday, 3: 45 pm.

in sydney, australia, it is 15 hours ahead of us.

Tornintwo

They have the elders manual and are using it to disprove many of the answers by this elder.

He says its now accepted to have the witness not face the accuser in a JC, they bring out the book to show that it doesn't say that unless they live a great distance away. He said they can have a parent or someone else present for moral support, they show the book does not state that. They also highlight the instructions in the book to 'put the accused at ease' whilst there is no counsel to assist the accuser/victim.

Having the book examined and quoted in the public domain will be very revealing to the world and I am sure maddening for the GB.

This elder is probably very, very glad that the day is over.

40

Update on Royal Commission

by umbertoecho in

paedophiles repeatedly promoted to positions of authority in jehovahs witness church royal commission told.

1 hour ago july 27, 2015 12:45pm.

counsel assisting the royal commission, angus stewart sc has told the royal commission that church elders could now face criminal charges.

Tornintwo

It's definitely only Australia because in the context it mentions the member of JWs being 70000 there.

as a statistic this works out as 1.42% of the current membership (1000 cases), if it is similar ratio across the world then it would be 113600 cases of 8million current members. I always thought the Bill Bowen/Barbara Anderson claims about the U.S. Bethel Database of child abusers must be exaggerated (think they claimed 20-30k names) but this shows it could well be an underestimation!

its clear this commission got access to the files, hope that they can do the same in the USA and UK.

Poor victims, this is just disgusting, this report this morning has finished my faith in this organisation completely, these victims have had to go to 'worldly courts' to finally have their voices heard. Cases unreported, abusers reinstated and reappointed, or appointed, victims grilled in front of abusers.....Jehovah cannot be with the witnesses.

25

Media headline:Jehovah's Witnesses did not report 1006 alleged sex abusers to police, royal commission told

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

check it for yourself: .

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/jehovahs-witnesses-did-not-report-1006-alleged-sex-abusers-to-police-royal-commission-told-20150727-gil1u7.

not a good look!.

Tornintwo

Wow, over a 1000 cases unreported, abusers appointed as elders, abusers reinstated and reappointed! This investigation clearly got hold of the files!! If only they'd do that in the states and UK.

heartbreaking for the victims, what does it say that they had to go to 'worldly' courts to get justice.

well, nail in coffin for this doubter, Jehovah's spirit CANNOT be with this organisation.

hope other countries media pick up on this.