Tornintwo

Joined

• started 46 topics
• posted 522 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Tornintwo

• 
  40

  Greetings

  by Pioneerbot in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  wanted to say hi.

  i've been lurking for a long time.

  i also spend time on other forums.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  Hi pioneerbot and welcome! Well done getting you and your kids out! Would love to hear what woke you up? I'm recently awakened, one of my kids left a year before me and the witnesses' bad treatment of him started my doubts. My other older child has just left too. I'm relieved because they have their whole lives ahead of them to live free of the control of the organization, whereas we are just picking up the pieces of our lives. Good luck with your husband, mine is fully indoctrinated and I don't think a mass resignation by the GB could even wake him up! I agree this forum is great, a place to rant and laugh and debate and support eachother, with people who actually get what your going through X
• 
  5

  Indoctrination and subordination

  by Tornintwo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are so many gems in in search of christian freedom but i thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;.

  "the sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organizations interpretation placed on jesus words about not being part of the world.

  the community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  There are so many gems in In Search of Christian Freedom but I thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;

  "The sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organization’s interpretation placed on Jesus’ words about not being part of the world. The community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of Scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization. They are continually told that this is the only way to keep them from being misled. The apparent aim is to create a sterile atmosphere in which the views and interpretations of the orga- nization can circulate freely without having to confront any challenge.
  

  As a rule the longer one is associated with the organization the more concentrated his or her social contacts are, the more restricted friendships are to those within the organization. Even “worldly” relatives, meaning non-Witness relatives, are often gradually shunted off to a rather cool and distant relationship.

  One’s thus becoming part of an exclusive community with only limited, “necessary” contact with anyone outside is the factor that gives such enormous power to any disfellowshiping decree established by the organization. One’s whole social life resides within the organization. If associated for many years, to be disfellowshiped means to be cut off from virtually every friend- ship one has.

  Particularly for those in their elderly years of life this can present a devastatingly depressing prospect. The situation par- allels closely that of persons in apostolic times who were ‘cast out of the synagogue,’ since the synagogue was the center of all so- cial contact in a Jewish community.23

  I strongly doubt that most persons, in reading the Bible itself, would ever be led to view Jesus’ words about not being part of the world in the extreme way conveyed by the Watch Tower publications. Not that such an exclusivistic view is not found in the Bible. It is. But it is the viewpoint taken by the Pharisees, not that taught by Jesus Christ or his apostles. As already seen, the very name “Pharisee” means “separated” or “exclusive.” In their extreme views, this religious group sought to be separate from, and exclude from their associa- tion, all persons not holding to their particular traditional teach- ings and standards of holiness, viewing all such as “unclean.”24

  Jesus Christ set a very different example from such extremists and this incensed them, caused them to condemn him and the way he associated with others. In reading his words, not only in the Sermon on the Mount but in all his teachings, one finds that Jesus’ primary focus was not on an elaborate set of doctrinal interpretations but on the real goal set out in the Scriptures, their true aim and thrust, namely love of God and love of neighbor."
• 
  32

  Refused to go to meeting wife broke frying pan on my car....now SHE is inactive 4 years my advice!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my wife is a stubborn stubborn woman.

  when we got the internet in 1998 i slowly faded due to trying to prove apostates are lairs and scum...only to find they told nothing but "the truth.

  " every qoute was checked and re-checked.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  hahahahaha - you just cheered me up. Love conquers all... sounds like a crazy ride, at least your marriage isn't boring!!
• 
  17

  Acronyms

  by Distracted in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading through a lot of the forum posts and wondered what tatt stands for (?).

  any more acronyms that are special to this site?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  where did DUB come from?
• 
  15

  Missing Friends.

  by Resi in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it's been a long time since i posted.

  for a brief recap, i have an aunt who is one of jehovah's witnesses.

  when i was really sick, i sought out their group because i remembered the support my aunt had and how they were like a second family to her.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  I have faded over the past few months and find myself quite lonely at times, missing some friendships. But I realize I can't have them unless I accept teachings and practices I no longer agree with, no blood, no birthdays, family shunning, looking down on worldly people, believing that everyone else is wrong and will die, mishandling of child abuse, legalism, dogmatism, judgementalism within the congregation and a thinly disguised hierarchy.

  The reason I'm lonely is I've never cultivated friendships outside the organization, because I was told not to. My plan it to try to do that now and hopefully I'll miss the few nice witnesses less and less. Hopefully in the long run well have better friendships, which aren't conditional on us conforming to an organizational ideal.
• 
  216

  I'm a Pioneer Married To a Wonderful Brother Reaching Out to be an MS...

  by cognac in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  and petrified... i just recently became a pioneer and always had nagging questions in the back of my mind.

  so, i decided that when i have get a study i would research all the questions as i go along so as to prove everything in the truth... i got 4 studies in about 2 months.

  all was fine, until i reached i think chapter 6 in the bible teach book about the resurrection.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  Wow Cognac, it's amazing to see the first stage in your doubting.

  It looks like a poster is trying to re-convert you, I am guessing it won't work hehe.

  I really like reading your posts, thank you, where is your hubby at now? (I'm in a similar position yet 8 years behind).
• 
  90

  Kingdom Consolidation and Sales are coming – Reliable Source

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i heard form a reliable source that a kingdom hall consolidation is going to be happening in the us.

  currently they are looking at every kingdom hall to see if they could and should sell it.

  any kingdom hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc...) will be sold.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  A kh I used to attend has just been sold, it was ground floor of a large, older building in a town center. My hubby has been told by an org. heavy that there will be more major changes coming with some things difficult to understand.
• 
  90

  Kingdom Consolidation and Sales are coming – Reliable Source

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i heard form a reliable source that a kingdom hall consolidation is going to be happening in the us.

  currently they are looking at every kingdom hall to see if they could and should sell it.

  any kingdom hall that has not been updated and is in a bad location (long driveway, not in a visible location etc...) will be sold.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  Wasn't there a case in California where the elder body were taking the society to court to get back their congregation's Kingdom Hall? Anyone know where that thread/info is?
• 
  35

  A question

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody ever written bethel and just flat out asked for an accounting report on the society's finances?

  we all keep batting around speculation about the wtbs and money, and actual information seems non-existent.

  what would they do if somebody asked for a financial statement?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  How about

  "my elderly sick mother wants To leave half of her 18 million dollar estate to your society, myself and my siblings respect her wishes as we have seen that she has obtained a great deal of joy and support from this religion. However we have agreed that we cannot sign off on this with my power of attorney until we verify that all funds are used for charitable causes. The vast majority of charities publish full financial statements, please could you advise where we can obtain these for the WTBTS and its affiliates"
• 
  9

  Does growing up in a religious family make you MEAN?

  by Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yeah, i was mean.

  could it be that i was not encouraged to have non-jw's as friends, so i viewed them as insignificant?

  could it be that i found it difficult to live up to "christian standards" and took it out on others?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Tornintwo

  I actually think birthdays are quite important in this respect and missing out on them has a more profound effect than you would at first think to the jw youth. The WT teaches us that they glorify the individual but actually the opposite is true. When kids celebrate someone else's birthday, they learn it is someone else's special day, that they have to take a back seat and wait their turn, whilst the attention and gifts go to the birthday boy/girl. They have to give something maybe they would have wanted themselves. But then with patience their own special day comes along.

  At these and other celebrations you have to think about others, There is also chance to play at party games which involve sharing, taking turns and losing plus just being part of the wider community. It may sound simplistic, but looking back at my older kids who we raised as JWs until mid teens when they have left (one a year before me and one just after me) I can see that they really missed out on a lot of life lessons through not having a part in such celebrations.