Platinum fix - the point I was trying to make, is I don't believe it would be right to go back to old testament and ISIS style punishments, stoning for adultery, stoning for homosexuality, stoning for teenage rebellion. The point I am making is that in modern educated society, the 'decent' people generally believe that such sins do not merit murder. That isn't condoning adultery, which is wrong and I am sure and have witnessed, very painful to be a victim of.
Tornintwo
JoinedPosts by Tornintwo
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Question for believers, heaven or earth?
by Tornintwo injust trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.
jesus message appeals, of course.
i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.
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Question for believers, heaven or earth?
by Tornintwo injust trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.
jesus message appeals, of course.
i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.
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Tornintwo
Thanks for replies so far, searcher I will watch with interest later on.
Mommyfirstandalways.... I agree with you - I am very confused about the God of the OT and am starting to have doubts about the scriptures and their purpose... But, I do find the message and example of Christ very appealing and worthy of following (even if you don't believe in God) but I do believe, it might sound simplistic but I look at life and and nature & I believe there must be some more powerful force behind it, so I guess I am still searching for answers.
I think if I was creator I would be proud of the emerging humanistic 'new morality' where respect for and equality of gender, race, and sexuality is more important than controlling people or their sex lives. Where murder is a worse sin than adultery (whereas in the OT murder was sanctioned in the case of adultery). I wouldn't want to punish anyone with death or hellfire if they happen to have the wrong religious views by accident of birth.
So yeah, I'm confused - Keep those answers coming!
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Question for believers, heaven or earth?
by Tornintwo injust trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.
jesus message appeals, of course.
i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.
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Tornintwo
Just trying to figure out what I believe in the wake of leaving the Borg. Jesus message appeals, of course. I just wanted to ask believers, Christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth. Reading the gospels the heavenly hope comes through stronger. But then how to you explain scriptures such as ?
'meek will inherit the earth', 'thy will be done on earth...' Daniel 2:44, rev 21:3,4 etc.
i always treasured the paradise earth hope, not so much for myself, but for the desire to see the earth cleansed of pollution and nature no longer threatened with destruction by greedy mankind, but I realize now that the concept that animals will change their dietary habits, with all of the consequences that has for natural life cycles, is farfetched. Also how are humans going to live without sinning with all of their inherent natural desires, if in the 'new system' young Johnny and Jane hook up, will they get zapped instantly or stoned by the survivors of armageddon? Doesn't sound much like a paradise to me.
your thoughts would be welcome please...
atheists, if you must post on this thread please be nice!
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A question about fading....
by Tornintwo ini understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.
as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.
so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.
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Tornintwo
Thanks for all of your responses, it sheds light on the reasoning behind the slow fade. I really feel for people who want out but their parents, siblings, etc are all witnesses. As a convert I only have to worry about my husband. My girl and I are fading fast, just walked away after being sporadic for a while, last meeting 2 months ago, no repercussions yet , watch this space! -
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Did you know anyone who commited suicide in the org?
by JH inback in 1991, a young brother maybe 18 years old living next to my place committed suicide.
his father expected him to be very zealous just like he was, but the son never wanted to be like that.
he was always controlled by his father.
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Tornintwo
This is so shocking and sad, but not really surprising considering the guilt and oppression this religion puts on people.
a friend of a friend threw himself off a road bridge, reading between the lines it sounds like he might have been fighting homosexuality, how many more young men must there be like that?
I think there should be a jw 'memorial' website, listing all those who have committed suicide, experiences, wherever possible backed up with names and dates, obituaries etc.
A page for those who've died because of the blood issue
And a page listing experiences of those who Have suffered physical or sexual abuse within the confines of the organisation.
surely this would wake people up.
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Neglect of Adolescents by the WTBTS - Excellent Article
by Tornintwo ini have been thinking a lot about the lack of support, judgement and criticism of teenagers in the organisation.
i am dealing with the fallout of these policies with my two adolescents...i found this excellent article this morning which is worth a read for anyone interested in this topic - see the links below but first i also wanted to add my own bugbear, forgive the rant: .
a key factor which isn't mentioned in the article is the 'bad association' rule and it's extended application.
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Tornintwo
Sorry don'tfitin, I feel for you and your daughter, been through that pain. I sent you a PM -
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A question about fading....
by Tornintwo ini understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.
as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.
so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.
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Tornintwo
I haven't attended at all for about 3 months now, my daughter hasn't for 2 months. No contact by elders yet since the c.o. Shepherding call when I was first doubting..'touch wood'. You're right I'm fortunate I don't have extended family who are witnesses, only my husband who thinks the devil has got to me!
I was just wondering more for my daughters sake more than anything, any judicial action would be very damaging as she is vulnerable, so I would fight it tooth and nail if they tried.
I do have an ex jw friend who has been inactive for about 3 years. She goes to the memorial and odd meeting, is very close to her prominent jw family (elder & pioneers) because they work together , but is living an 'immoral life', nobody bothers her because she's not 'seen' as a jw anymore. Although some witnesses avoid her of course, there's been no attempt at judicial action.
But I can see there seems to be great disparities between countries, cultures, even individual congregations about the way these things are handled by the 'spiritual policemen'
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A question about fading....
by Tornintwo ini understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.
as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.
so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.
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Tornintwo
I understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.
Can I ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?
as I understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc. so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better. Because then if you do something 'wrong' (be it celebrations, 'apostasy', associating with df'd ones, or immorality etc) the elders hopefully won't chase you to deal with it judicially because you are no longer considered a member of the congregation. At least that is the case where I am, once your gone, they don't seem to care that much.
Have I missed something? Maybe is it an attempt to preserve family relations that needs a slow fade?
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My fade might well start today.
by StarTrekAngel inmany here whom have read my previous posts know more or less my situation.
wife is not hardcore but we still bump heads from time to time.
if it wasn't for this cult, and while it was not an issue, we had an almost perfect marriage.
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Tornintwo
Sorry therapy did not go as you thought it would, but bear in mind that most therapists try to gain the trust of their clients in the early sessions and hold back from challenging their views until that trust is established.
with regard to the children, I've noticed a lot of posters saying once they were out their children followed suit, that's been the case with my teenage daughter who until recently appeared to be very enthusiastic about the religion. After all, most kids just want to fit in and be accepted, given the choice between being 'normal' with birthday parties, Xmas etc, freedom to choose friends and sleep in at the weekend, compared to life as a jw, most will choose the normal option. (It seems harder when the kids are older in their 20s and have gone through all the pier pressure stuff and committed to the org, married a dub etc.. ) Don't bad mouth the wt or your wife but try to make it appealing to stay home with you.
You sound like you have a good marriage and she's not overly committed to the org, so when your show her you can be a good husband and have fun together with you out of the organisation, her attendance might well die off naturally. A lot of people find it hard to make a vocal 'decision' because of the guilt but drifting away might be the easy option for her, you could look happy and relaxed with a glass of wine in hand when she comes in tired after a meeting. Why not start fading if your hearts not in it? I've faded fast and the elders haven't bothered me.
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Indoctrination and subordination
by Tornintwo inthere are so many gems in in search of christian freedom but i thought this section in 'indoctrination and subordination' was excellent, summing things up brilliantly, worth highlighting for anyone who hasn't read the book;.
"the sum of the evidence is, then, that although no extreme physical isolation occurs, a very effective mental isolation is pro- duced by the organizations interpretation placed on jesus words about not being part of the world.
the community of believers becomes quite insulated and intellectually sealed off from any source of scriptural material other than that coming from the one voice, that of the organization.
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Tornintwo
Reading the real life examples of the effects of this isolationist, captive religion is powerful ' witness' that it isn't natural, human or christian.