Posts by Tornintwo

28

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

by Tornintwo in

just trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.

jesus message appeals, of course.

i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.

Tornintwo

I agree it's a surprise to say the least to find that Protestants/mainstream Christianity also allow for belief in resurrection to the earth 'in the end', as per the searcher's video post on page. 1, interesting. I was lead to believe that only the witnesses had that belief and that we had to put up with all of the other crap in order to entertain that hope. Hmm eye opener.

I think it's the dogmatism and superiority that I hate the most, "only we have it right, you can't disagree because were appointed by God, everyone else has it wrong, they're all going to die if they don't join us". What a massive superiority complex and ego trip. It seems like most other Christian religions allow for quite a bit of personal freedom of thought based around the basic Christian message.

28

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

by Tornintwo in

just trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.

jesus message appeals, of course.

i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.

Tornintwo

Hi PF, no worries....I get it. "How many people would love to restart life and make different choices?" yep, me, don't become a Jehovahs Witness, get an education, save more money......and so on...

15

Freedom in admitting the truth...

by _Morpheus in

for those that lurk or havnt decided to post yet.... living a lie is difficult.

nobody would likely disagree with that... many of us lived or are living the wt lie for the sake of friends or family.

it can eat at us and put us in situations where we frame half truths, try to find tactful way to avoid telling people what we really think.. there is great freedom in being able to admit truths.

Tornintwo

Well said....

The first step is to 'allow' yourself to listen to the doubts you have, then to research those doubts and acknowledge where the evidence takes you. Using this forum as a sounding board as you go through that often -painful process is comforting and liberating.

I found the best place to start truly examining WT teachings without bitterness or emotion is jwfacts.com

28

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

by Tornintwo in

just trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.

jesus message appeals, of course.

i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.

Tornintwo

Platinum fix - the point I was trying to make, is I don't believe it would be right to go back to old testament and ISIS style punishments, stoning for adultery, stoning for homosexuality, stoning for teenage rebellion. The point I am making is that in modern educated society, the 'decent' people generally believe that such sins do not merit murder. That isn't condoning adultery, which is wrong and I am sure and have witnessed, very painful to be a victim of.

28

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

by Tornintwo in

just trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.

jesus message appeals, of course.

i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.

Tornintwo

Thanks for replies so far, searcher I will watch with interest later on.

Mommyfirstandalways.... I agree with you - I am very confused about the God of the OT and am starting to have doubts about the scriptures and their purpose... But, I do find the message and example of Christ very appealing and worthy of following (even if you don't believe in God) but I do believe, it might sound simplistic but I look at life and and nature & I believe there must be some more powerful force behind it, so I guess I am still searching for answers.

I think if I was creator I would be proud of the emerging humanistic 'new morality' where respect for and equality of gender, race, and sexuality is more important than controlling people or their sex lives. Where murder is a worse sin than adultery (whereas in the OT murder was sanctioned in the case of adultery). I wouldn't want to punish anyone with death or hellfire if they happen to have the wrong religious views by accident of birth.

So yeah, I'm confused - Keep those answers coming!

28

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

by Tornintwo in

just trying to figure out what i believe in the wake of leaving the borg.

jesus message appeals, of course.

i just wanted to ask believers, christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth.

Tornintwo

Just trying to figure out what I believe in the wake of leaving the Borg. Jesus message appeals, of course. I just wanted to ask believers, Christians, on this forum if you think the hope is heaven or earth. Reading the gospels the heavenly hope comes through stronger. But then how to you explain scriptures such as ?

'meek will inherit the earth', 'thy will be done on earth...' Daniel 2:44, rev 21:3,4 etc.

i always treasured the paradise earth hope, not so much for myself, but for the desire to see the earth cleansed of pollution and nature no longer threatened with destruction by greedy mankind, but I realize now that the concept that animals will change their dietary habits, with all of the consequences that has for natural life cycles, is farfetched. Also how are humans going to live without sinning with all of their inherent natural desires, if in the 'new system' young Johnny and Jane hook up, will they get zapped instantly or stoned by the survivors of armageddon? Doesn't sound much like a paradise to me.

your thoughts would be welcome please...

atheists, if you must post on this thread please be nice!

37

A question about fading....

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.

as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.

so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.

Tornintwo

Thanks for all of your responses, it sheds light on the reasoning behind the slow fade. I really feel for people who want out but their parents, siblings, etc are all witnesses. As a convert I only have to worry about my husband. My girl and I are fading fast, just walked away after being sporadic for a while, last meeting 2 months ago, no repercussions yet , watch this space!

69

Did you know anyone who commited suicide in the org?

by JH in

jw
friends

back in 1991, a young brother maybe 18 years old living next to my place committed suicide.

his father expected him to be very zealous just like he was, but the son never wanted to be like that.

he was always controlled by his father.

Tornintwo

This is so shocking and sad, but not really surprising considering the guilt and oppression this religion puts on people.

a friend of a friend threw himself off a road bridge, reading between the lines it sounds like he might have been fighting homosexuality, how many more young men must there be like that?

I think there should be a jw 'memorial' website, listing all those who have committed suicide, experiences, wherever possible backed up with names and dates, obituaries etc.

A page for those who've died because of the blood issue

And a page listing experiences of those who Have suffered physical or sexual abuse within the confines of the organisation.

surely this would wake people up.

10

Neglect of Adolescents by the WTBTS - Excellent Article

by Tornintwo in

i have been thinking a lot about the lack of support, judgement and criticism of teenagers in the organisation.

i am dealing with the fallout of these policies with my two adolescents...i found this excellent article this morning which is worth a read for anyone interested in this topic - see the links below but first i also wanted to add my own bugbear, forgive the rant: .

a key factor which isn't mentioned in the article is the 'bad association' rule and it's extended application.

Tornintwo

Sorry don'tfitin, I feel for you and your daughter, been through that pain. I sent you a PM

37

A question about fading....

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.

as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.

so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.

Tornintwo

I haven't attended at all for about 3 months now, my daughter hasn't for 2 months. No contact by elders yet since the c.o. Shepherding call when I was first doubting..'touch wood'. You're right I'm fortunate I don't have extended family who are witnesses, only my husband who thinks the devil has got to me!

I was just wondering more for my daughters sake more than anything, any judicial action would be very damaging as she is vulnerable, so I would fight it tooth and nail if they tried.

I do have an ex jw friend who has been inactive for about 3 years. She goes to the memorial and odd meeting, is very close to her prominent jw family (elder & pioneers) because they work together , but is living an 'immoral life', nobody bothers her because she's not 'seen' as a jw anymore. Although some witnesses avoid her of course, there's been no attempt at judicial action.

But I can see there seems to be great disparities between countries, cultures, even individual congregations about the way these things are handled by the 'spiritual policemen'