Posts by bbdodger

9

Searching For JWs/Dr. Laura's Advice (cheating with two topics :P)

by bbdodger in

often, i find myself doing google searches for people who i went to kh with years and years ago.

i try to find clues of what they're up to, search out the ones who were "weak in their faith", and try to see if they are still hanging on, or have "fallen away from the truth".

i look for people my own age to find out what they're doing.

bbdodger

thanks... I'm at home, knowing that I can relate to you in a way that I can't relate to anyone else. I'm so happy to have found this forum! I appreciate all the warm welcomes!!!

2

Kingdom Ministry for all to see

by alanv in

just a thought, but how about if somebody who is still fading get's a scan of the kingdom ministry every now and then.

this will enable many of us with families in the borg to know what our loved ones are currently being told to do.

this in turn may enable us to expose the gross manipulation that is carried out by the society.

bbdodger

Didn't they use to send out KMs to invalids, and elderly who weren't able to make it to meetings? If only there was a way! It's a good idea, and it piques my curiosity as well.

Of course, it would take being rolled into KH on a hospital bed, hooked up to a respirator, and an IV drip of morphine before it would be considered a valid excuse for an elderly JW to miss a meeting.

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

I haven't spoken to anyone in my congregation for nearly 20 years, and I do all I can to avoid them. I am married, I've gotten on with my life. I've visited other Churches (with a heavy heart). None of my friends, or social circle are JWs. I've gotten rid of all of that, many years ago.

My point is that after that long of a time period, the language that unique to JWs, the doctrines, the guilt and fear... it's still familiar to me, it's still there!

I was a child when my Mother was DFed. It's just proof of how strong their tactics of control really are... I'm a perfect example of that.

9

Searching For JWs/Dr. Laura's Advice (cheating with two topics :P)

by bbdodger in

often, i find myself doing google searches for people who i went to kh with years and years ago.

i try to find clues of what they're up to, search out the ones who were "weak in their faith", and try to see if they are still hanging on, or have "fallen away from the truth".

i look for people my own age to find out what they're doing.

bbdodger

Often, I find myself doing Google searches for people who I went to KH with years and years ago. I try to find clues of what they're up to, search out the ones who were "weak in their faith", and try to see if they are still hanging on, or have "fallen away from the truth". I look for people my own age to find out what they're doing. I even look through the phone book find out where people are living nowadays.

In my line of work, I come across a certain woman who is the same age as me. We both grew up as JWs. I try to wear sunglasses when I have to come in contact with her, and if I'm not wearing sunglasses, I don't make direct eye contact, and I make our meetings very brief. I recognize her, so it's entirely possible that she would recognize me too.

I searched out myspace for profiles of JWs, and was surprised that myspace hadn't been banned. Maybe it's "frowned upon", but definitely not banned. None of the people (ages 16-35) that proclaimed their religion as JW seemed like the people that the WTS uses to illustrate young JWs. A lot of them liked good music (as most of the young JWs did when I was there), were into outside activities, were articulate, talented, stylish, relaxed, seemed free and open-minded, however each one included a paragraph explaining the wonderful and fulfilling life they lead, under the WTS. It might all be a tactic to Witness, without having to actually do anything.

In the past 20 years, I hardly ever see anyone from the congregation. If I do, I just try to keep my head down, and not look at any of them. I do NOT want a run-in that would reveal where I am in my life right now. I don't want to deal with family members who don't know my married name, that I still live here, how I look, and who I have become.

I listen to Dr. Laura on the radio, I'm will not to respond to comments regarding whether this is or isn't a good idea.

(I'm paraphrasing, but you'll get the idea)

One day, a woman in her early 20s called in and asked Dr. Laura if she should break ties, and stop speaking to her family. Dr. Laura asked her why she would consider doing that, what had her family done to make her want to break ties with them?
Her response "Well, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses now, and I don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, and they are upset because the holidays were always very important to them, and as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I refuse to come to these events. I'm wondering if I should quit talking to them all together".
Dr. Laura was SHOCKED to say the least. She said "I know nothing about Jehovah's Witnesses not being able to speak to their families because they celebrate holidays. I celebrate birthdays, and you're talking to me... so you might as well hang up". The called said "uh huh". Dr. Laura told her that what she was doing was wrong, that she was the one who decided to convert to JW, and she was disrespecting her family's beliefs by turning away from them. She said that it wasn't fair for her to think that her way of thinking was more valid or important than their, and that it was insulting to her family that she would even think of cutting ties with them because of something that she was choosing to do (not her family). Wow. Then Dr. Laura said something I found very poignant, before ending the call. She said something like "for one to not know the love of family, is like not truly knowing the love of God". I wrote it down, it's around here somewhere. I wish I had the exact quote, but you get the gist of it.

( I went upstairs to look for it, but couldn't find it ).

Gotta love Dr. Laura.

60

Jesus is the answer!

by startingover in

i hope it worked.

my intent with the title of this thread was to attract both believers and non-believers.

whenever a thread appears promoting the wonders of jesus, it will inevitably develop into a back and forth discussion ad nauseam.. i was born into a family that believed there was a god, he had a son jesus and his word was the bible.

bbdodger

I was talking to my husband about this topic this morning (before I even logged in to the site)!

It's hard for me to accept The Trinity, as I cannot accept the idea that God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. I subscribe to the JW belief that God was first, created Jesus, and Jesus came to Earth to help things, as God the Father kept his place in Heaven to watch over. Who else would Jesus have been praying to? When my Christian (non-JW) friends try to point out verses in the Bible to prove the Trinity to me, they go right over my head... it seems so far fetched, and really stretching to make the doctrine seem true.

I love Jesus, but I do not think of him as God... I think of him as God's son, whose role in the hierarchy of Heaven is to sit by God's side, and do what a helpful son would do for his father in terms of an Earthly father and son. I believe that God the Father created Jesus, as they are not one in the same.

I've been to some Churches, and the entire focus is on Jesus. Since I do not believe in the Trinity, I always felt a little odd about speaking of Jesus as God himself. It's something that is not in my heart, a concept that I have no faith in.

My disbelief in The Trinity probably something leftover from the teachings of JWs, however, it's something that cannot effectively be proven to me.

Jesus is the answer, he forgave our sins, but I still believe that we must ask God the Father to grant us the privilege of being forgiven.

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

well, she has definitely "moved on" in the physical sense... she's remarried, an active bar hopper, smokes cigarettes, drinks lots and lots of beer, did I mention smoke?

Her new husband is an in-active Lutheran, and he has tried to talk to her about it, but she says that in her heart, she can't let go of the thought that it IS "the truth". He's tried to help her deal with it, but it's hard to get through to her, because it's an issue that she's very sensitive about. Understand, like most DFed JWs, she was shunned by a large part of her family; this isn't a matter taken lightly.

I wish she could cast it aside, but it's not that easy. I think that she's going overboard by all the smoking, drinking, etc., I think that it makes her feel as if SHE is in control of the things she does, instead of the Organization. Does that make sense?

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

I was just reflecting on the fact that most everything else that I remember from my childhood I remember no where near as VIVIDLY as my time spent at Kingdom Hall, and related activities/events.

It's just plain weird how the expectations of children are the same as the adults in the organization. There is tremendous pressure put on a child who is stuck there. Other religious sects have... Sunday School! What a concept, right? When a child is born into the "truth" , they know no other way.

Going to meetings that are meant for adults is terrible for children, there are just certain concepts that innocent minds cannot handle without some serious repercussions later. I don't think that any child should have to be scared of the future, doom and gloom, Armageddon, and most frightening of all, disappointing Jehovah. At least my vocabulary was a lot more developed than my peers at school; Thanks JWS!!!

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

I think this thread might be in the wrong catagory... so feel free to move it, I'm new, and I'm not too sure where to put stuff yet

-BBdodger

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

this is just great... everyone is so welcoming (unlike the Witnesses in the following story :P)

A "return visit" in his 50s was studying their Bible finally started coming to meetings. The only suit he owned was a green leisure suit, the kind from the 70s, huge butterfly collar, worn with a thick bow-tie, also popular in the 1970s. Well, this was the 80s... and the whispers and giggles I heard made me feel more embarrassed for them, instead of him. He was there, isn't that enough? Obviously not for the folks in our congregation.
It didn't seem that he noticed the snickers and stares, because he kept going to meetings, Tuesday nights, sometimes on Sunday afternoons. But no one would talk to the man. He wore the same green leisure suit to every meeting. After a few weeks, he was gone. I'm sure he began to realize that he was the butt of a joke after awhile... but all the more power to him! At least he got out before it was TOO LATE!

It's nice to be able to relate with some people who recognize my experiences, ours aren't all that different from each other's. I'm still befuddled by the flood of replies that I'm getting, my intro. posting got 151 views within a half hour, and plenty of warm welcomes. When my husband came home from work today, I couldn't wait to tell him about the board. He didn't grow up in any particular faith, so I think it's hard for him to really understand how heavily this weighs on my heart. He's there for me, but sometimes you need someone who knows first hand.

I was just thinking about the whole scare tactic of possession... how I thought it was completely rational to think that if I thought "unclean" thoughts, I would be possessed by a demon. Remember, being told that Churches in Christendom were full of demons? Remember graphic pictures of fallen angels, bloody scenes of war and terror that were commonplace in books meant for children? Wow... to think that my future children won't have the same nightmares that I use to have is comforting enough.

27

Some Thoughts... I'm new, this is THERAPUTIC for me... read if you'd like

by bbdodger in

in a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy.

given a version of the bible, not being able to read any other version of the bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance.

in a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight.

bbdodger

In a cult, the society of the cult tries everything in their power to keep one in that society, as well as keeping one ignorant of any information that would sever the guise of legitimacy. Given a version of the Bible, not being able to read any other version of the Bible is just one example of this kind of inflicted ignorance. In a cult, it's impossible to get out without a fight. I am so happy that my mother got out in time, but it made me a very confused teenager, and left me with a lot of inner turmoil. I realize now that what we were in was a cult, and it's horrible to think that a child had to be subjected to a childhood that was so lacking of the joys that normal children get to experience.

A child's life that revolves around such adult activities makes a child grow up much too fast. I didn't know what i was missing out on, but I had no friends to speak of, and the other JW kids weren't really interested in me anyway because I've always been a bit eccentric. Kingdom Hall was the same for adults as it was for children. I remember in Bible Study, having to sit quietly while the topic of oral sex was discussed. I was not told to wait in another room, I was to participate as all others were to participate. I didn't know what oral sex was; I assumed (at the age of six) that it meant 'talking dirty' to your partner. Regardless if the definition wasn't plain in the discussion, it was still inappropriate for a child to be subjected to.

Children in the "Kingdom" were expected to behave a certain way, a way that I found to be inhibiting to a child's nature. I understood this, even as a "youngster" (as I was so often referred to as). Children who misbehaved were promptly taken into one of the bathrooms for a beating, that could be heard throughout the KH. Children aren't privy to sitting still for two hours, but sure enough, I was diagnosed with ADD. What a shock.
Children are the most sheltered, as born into the faith, they no one other way than the way of the faith.

In Watchtower publications, the children and teenagers were always shown dressed in crisp, dull clothing, and with boring Ken doll hair, whereas the "worldly" kids in the illustrations were depicted wearing clothing that looked cool, longer hair, more "in style". I often found myself staring at these pictures in books; Young People Ask, Watchtower, Awake, even You Can Live Forever, and thinking to myself that if Witness children keep being depicted in books as "nerds", I didn't have much to look forward to in the future.

BAD WITNESS

I remember hiding things, my rat tail, for example was rolled up, and pinned underneath my hair. I remember losing a "Motley Crue" button, and then finding it later in the "lost and found" box. I grabbed that sucker, and stuck it in my pocket. If the elders would have found out who that button belonged to, I most assuredly would have gotten talked to. I use to love new wave and heavy metal music, and so did my mother. I had a cousin who was a JW, and a teenager. We used to love getting paired up for going out in service, because between stops, we'd crank up the Howard Jones, INXS, Information Society, New Order, Motley Crue or Def Leppard. My mom and her sister (a devout witness, to this day) used to make up dance routines to George Michael songs (including I Want Your Sex), and they'd go out to the local dance clubs to hang out at night. Yes, my mother probably deserved to be disfellowshipped... but thank GOD she rebelled the way she did.

I don't really know what went down during the meeting of my mother and the council of elders when she was officially kicked out. My first clue that something was going down was when she consistently started faking sick during going "door to door", and when we got home, she'd automatically be fine. She started to tell me that if my Grandma, Aunt, or anyone from Kingdom Hall called, not to say anything, to just hang up the phone. She moved a "Praise Jehovah" woodcarving from it's prominent display in the living room, to a more discreet spot (in her bedroom, usually covered up with clothes), and if we saw someone from the congregation, we'd either leave, or try to hide from them. I admit, it was kind of fun. I did miss my family thought, and tried to make some ties with them... but I soon realized that if I didn't remain constant in my attendance, I would be shunned the same way my mother was being shunned.

Escape seemed all the more impossible, having to actually cut ties with everyone in your inner circle. I never actually felt much camaraderie with other kids my age, however it's hard to make a life for yourself without everything being in someone Else's control. What would we do on Tuesday nights, Thursday nights, Saturday mornings, and Sunday Afternoons? It makes you feel quite useless, add to that, your brain marinating in thick and sticky guilt.

I've spent almost twenty of my thirty years on this Earth avoiding Jehovah's Witnesses. Isn't that some way to live? I am afraid of being questioned, chastised, judged, and above all being sucked right back in. So what if it wasn't my decision to leave the faith, it doesn't stop me from feeling the same things as my Mother has, and she has actually moved over 1000 miles away. No one knows her whereabouts, (I do) and it's these extreme measures that ex-Witnesses have to go through in order to get out from under the madness.

A few years ago, I stumbled upon another "apostate" site, and checked out an AWESOME book from the library. It practically mirrored the experiences my mother had as a JW, and I told her that I thought it was very important that she read it. We never discussed the past, and this was the first time I had brought it up in years. Throughout my teens, I never once mentioned the name Jehovah, and my mother basically let me do what I wanted (and I suppose this was also out of guilt).
When I told her about the book (the name of it escapes me now), she quickly came back with a response that SHOCKED me, even to this day. Even my own mother, a smoker, a drinker, living with a man whom she was not married to, the most worldly of the disfellowshiped replied "I don't like you reading that apostate literature... don't you know you're not suppose to do that?" I get tears in my eyes, thinking of her telling me that... how it rolled off the tongue, how it proved that The Watchtower still had her in it's relentless GRIP! I can't even begin to explain how that makes me feel... what is in her heart? It's still with her, and it's an internal struggle that she has been fighting with for twenty years.

I'm actually tearing up now... so I think I'm going to leave it at that. I may add more to this later. Thanks everyone for reading.