Posts by quincemyles

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

Ruby 456, Vanderhoven asked whether someone was a Christadelphian. My response was to him. I assumed you noticed his question.

Redpilltwice. The Tempter was human, not just a personification of temptation.The one to whom the accuser (satan) spoke may have been a representative of God on earth in those court sessions. If not, God would have spoken to Satan even when that satan was on earth. Job 38 and other verses show God talking to Job. Did Job go to heaven for him to speak to God? No. Did the accuser need to go to heaven to raise those concerns before God? No. The accuser walked in the land of Uz, roamed in Uz. The book of Job does not say the meetings were in heaven but does say the accuser was on earth, walking about. He may as well have been a human accuser who spoke to God like Job spoke to God.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

Nice talking to you too Ruby. I am not christadelphian. Thanks.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

That account is not about resurrection to life but bodies being forcibly expelled out of burial places because of the massive earthquake. Mt. 27:51 very clearly says there was an earthquake and that very historical event is not unique. It has happened over and over again in different places throughout history when earthquakes forced bodies out of burial places.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

Ruby 456.

quincemyles, please explain how Jesus levitating into the sky is solidly founded in reality objective to humans.

Jesus was baptized by John and killed at the hands of Pontius Pilate. Modern historians know that. First century Greek and Hebrew Historians wrote that he rose up appearing to more than 500 humans. They reported that men saw the resurrected Jesus levitate into the sky. If one does not admit the historic death-resurrection of Christ and appearance to more than 500 men, then one would not accept the solidly observed and reported fit of levitation.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

Everything about god and spirits is fiction.

Jesus was real. He died and was resurrected, then was seen levitating into the sky. That occurred in our time and space. My Faith is to be in that Jesus who was seen doing those things. He said he had a father in Heaven who becomes a Father to all those who believe in Jesus Christ. That is what matters and is solidly founded in reality objective to humans. God, spirits and the like may be fiction but Jesus, his death, resurrection and the One who resurrected him are not fiction. Thanks.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

They borrowed the Devil and demons concepts from their godless neighbors.

So why are you arguing against every subsequent reference to Satan in the NT?

I'm confused what your point is.

The point is that, without God actually revealing to Jews first that there were angels that fell, no human would know about that, i think. Fallen angels existed ,first, only in the imagination of the godless neighbors. Just because the Hebrews later imbibed that incorrect imagination does not lend credence to the existence of fallen angels. For instance, Fallen Titans born out of the mating of Uranus and earth, chased from heaven and chained by Zeus to be in a dark dungeon called Tartarus awaiting Judgment in fire was greatly developed by Greek poets such as Homer in his illiad around 800 B.C. No Hebrew knew stuff like that. That Jews later soaked in some of those fables does not in anyway lend credence to the idea that fallen Titans really existed bound in chains in a dark pit. Writers of the NT existed at a time that Jews had soaked in the Satan and his angels created by and existing only in the human imagination. 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 alludes to those myths. Just because NT writers alluded to myth to teach good christian lessons does not lend support to the existence of Fallen Titans with a king over them. Unless YHWH himself said revealed to humans first that there were fallen angels, no human of his own ability would know that. That humans knew that stuff before God himself told them, may mean that the concepts of Satan and fallen Titans is purely fiction.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

Smiddy.

Doesn`t the book of Job allude to a fallen Angel a spirit creature to tempt humans against God ?

What the book of Job says.

1) The accuser (Satan) walked in the land of Uz. Job 1:1,7.

2) Job was a prominent figure in the land, a wealthy sheikh. Job 1:3.

3) The accusing person attended some kind of court sessions in which matters concerning others were presented before a representative of God. Job 1:6. Exodus 18:19.

4) What befell Job was done by God himself, rather than the one who brought the accusations against Job. Job 1:11, 21; 2:5; 42:10.

What the book of Job does not say.

1) That the sons of God there were angels.

2) That the gatherings of the Sons of God before YHWH were in Heaven. The accuser was walking, roaming in the land of Uz. He would leave that land to possibly another land where the religious council was held and before whom he presented his cases against Job.

3) That the accuser is the one who caused the calamities that befell God. All the accuser did was request through God's representative that calamity falls on Job.

4) That a fallen angel was rebuked a the close of Job's tribulation. Only humans were rebuked, consolidating the idea that it was all a human against human affair before God. Job 42:7-9.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

It's very unlikely that Caiaphas, who was appointed by Valerius Gratus was a Pharisee. The Sadducess, who were pragmatists, were far more successful under Roman rule.

Will look into that. Thanks.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

There is no devil or Satan in the pre-exile OT.
He was borrowed from the Zoroastrian religion in Babylon.

I agree. No casting out of Demons either in the pre-exile OT. After interacting with Babylonians, Persians, Greeks and Romans, then you get demons of blindness, demons of muteness, demons of epilepsy, demons of schizophrenia being cast out. They borrowed the Devil and demons concepts from their godless neighbors.

So why are you using an obscure reference in Rev to interpret the letter of James?

From the time Jesus began his ministry to the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D, the devil was a human system, a human being or an idea standing in opposition to Christ's work. Any one of those would fit the devil in James. Why? James wrote to Jews who were scattered about, fleeing intense persecution. He urged them to endure. Who were the persecutors or opposers (Satans)? It was apostate Jews and Romans. I would point to the devil in James 4 as being a human, human system or sin on the basis of history without alluding to revelation 2:9,10; 3:9,10. Because the OT does not present the devil as a fallen spirit, he would not be the first to come to mind when i read devil in James. It is evident that first century Christians believed in a fallen archenemy which is why we find lots of Devils and demons in the NT. That belief was borrowed from neighbors and was not based on facts.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

quincemyles

I meant apostate Jews/Judaizers. Rev 2:9,10; 3:9,10.