Posts by EverAStudent

17

Is Jehovah's Witnesses a religion of confusion?

by asilentone in

EverAStudent

kurtbethel wrote: I could never get an answer when I asked if they were saved. Therefore, they have nothing to offer. Even in the talks they never say you can get saved or live forever. They say you have a prospect of it. Weasel word. When you enter a casino, you have a prospect of winning a jackpot. It is a casino religion, offering only a prospect.

Since they could not (or would not) answer my question about how to attain salvation, I started reading their "publications." Kurtbethel hit the nail on the head with the flat part of the hammer. It is ALWAYS described as a "chance" or an "opportunity." Get those slot machines fired up!

When I finally mapped out their salvation to the Bible's salvation, on paper, the senior study leader almost freaked (I had given one to everyone at the table -- snickering to myself). He admitted what was written on the paper was indeed how they viewed salvation (no certainty, you must work hard, then wait and see). Two weeks later they cut me off from studying with them.

Hey, who knew one could be absolutely certain of a guaranteed salvation just by believing on Jesus and calling out to Him for salvation using His name???? They pretty much told me it was the wrong name to call out to...sigh...

But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord , and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved ; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:8-13)

17

Is Jehovah's Witnesses a religion of confusion?

by asilentone in

EverAStudent

I never joined the organization, but went through more than a year of weekly Bible studies with a team of JWs. I knew they were utterly confused when I asked them what salvation was and how to get saved. They either had no clue, or were too ashamed to tell me. Imagine, a religion that is either too confused or too ashamed to tell people how to get saved..........

100

To you what was the Watchtower Socity's biggest lie ?

by The Almighty Homer in

yes, what was the biggest lie that you can think of, that persuaded you to realize that they were not who they said they were ?.

for myself it would have to be the year they picked as the destruction of ancient jerusalem 607 bc.. i have an assumption this was done purposely to coincide correctly with making 1914 an a important pivotal date.

in human history, which by all factual evidence it was not.. unassuming and deceiving manipulation for self marketing purposes.

EverAStudent

Finally-free wrote: "We're not here to convert you" isn't a JWs biggest lie, but it's up there.

lol

When I first sat down to talk with the witnesses they said, "We're not here to convert you, we just want to study the Bible with you." After a year of coming to my home they said, "We can't meet with you anymore because you have not converted and you won't use the true name of God, Jehovah."

Still lol

100

To you what was the Watchtower Socity's biggest lie ?

by The Almighty Homer in

yes, what was the biggest lie that you can think of, that persuaded you to realize that they were not who they said they were ?.

for myself it would have to be the year they picked as the destruction of ancient jerusalem 607 bc.. i have an assumption this was done purposely to coincide correctly with making 1914 an a important pivotal date.

in human history, which by all factual evidence it was not.. unassuming and deceiving manipulation for self marketing purposes.

EverAStudent

A previous poster opined that many of the things noted in this thread are not "lies" because they are religious doctrines based on erroneous interpretations of Scripture. This implies that everything the WTS has done and said are unintentional mistakes, not lies. I most enthusiastically disagree.

Doctrines can be, and often are, lies. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for replacing Scripture with their own lies (their false precepts and false doctrines). How much harsher would He be (will He be) against the WTS for all their whopper lies which they have created to replace Scripture?

An organization so apt to make the huge number of "unintentional mistakes" of biblical interpretation as has been made by the WTS is clearly being deceptive when they claim to be God's channel of communication.

52

The Title Jesus Gave Himself: Lord of the Sabbath

by EverAStudent in

jw
friends

i have been reading and investigating matthew 12:1-8. jesus is accused of breaking the law of the seventh day of rest, the sabbath.

he defends himself and then caps the discussion by declaring himself to be "the lord of the sabbath.

" since only yhwh was ever known as the lord of the sabbath (the one who created, owned, and received worship on the sabbath) i can find no other valid meaning for the title jesus gave to himself, except that he is calling himself god.. what meaning does the wts put on this title, since i know they are not willing to allow jesus to call himself yhwh?.

EverAStudent

moshe wrote:

- Moshe, EXACTLY! Alleging to have a grand title like "Lord of the Sabbath" is meaningless and laughable without the power and authority that goes with it.
Yes, that is what it is all about.

Question to moshe: So you think that the real issue is not that Jesus called Himself the Lord of the Sabbath (and thus YHWH), but that He lacked the power and authority to make the claim?

44

Why do the Churches teach Adam was created perfect?

by acolytes in

this is not a bible teaching.

the bible says the opposite.. adam was created physically imperfect or he wouldnt have needed to be put out the garden so as not to be able to eat from the tree of life-.

adam was created morally imperfect or he wouldnt have failed his first test.

EverAStudent

acolytes wrote:

To clarify I simply think it is wrong of churches to be dogmatic in their teaching when the Bible is not specific on the teaching.

My question was why Churches cant be more flexible with their theology. I mean many churches are non-judgemental on many issues. So why not show the same acceptance on matters of theology that are not black and white.

Having chosen to become a born again Christian when I was 14 years old, my perspective is from decades of experience in evangelical Christian churches.

Many churches use the word "perfect" in imperfect ways. It is usually used as a catch-all term that means that as a flesh-and-blood guy with finite knowledge and finite abilities, he could have lived in the Garden environment forever if he had chosen not to rebel against God.

Although he "apparently" did not have a sin nature, he still sinned. That means his innate nature was not one of perfect holiness; only God has a perfectly holy nature.

So, you are right, Adam was not perfect in many ways. Most Christian churches would acknowledge that while also acknowledging that before he sinned he was sinless (their usual but skewed definition for "perfection").

52

The Title Jesus Gave Himself: Lord of the Sabbath

by EverAStudent in

jw
friends

i have been reading and investigating matthew 12:1-8. jesus is accused of breaking the law of the seventh day of rest, the sabbath.

he defends himself and then caps the discussion by declaring himself to be "the lord of the sabbath.

" since only yhwh was ever known as the lord of the sabbath (the one who created, owned, and received worship on the sabbath) i can find no other valid meaning for the title jesus gave to himself, except that he is calling himself god.. what meaning does the wts put on this title, since i know they are not willing to allow jesus to call himself yhwh?.

EverAStudent

EverAStudent wrote:

As I have been away from posting for a while, I have had time to think through it a bit. I tried to contemplate how it made sense in light of the gospel story that all humanity were “lords of the Sabbath.”

In what way could all men be lords of the Sabbath? Did they create the Sabbath Law? No, YHWH did. Did men have the ability to change the regulations of the Sabbath Law? No, if they had broken the Sabbath (like picking up fire wood) they would have been executed (Numbers 15:32 -35) . Did men have the authority to ignore the Sabbath Law? No, Jesus told them they must obey the entire Law in spirit and in letter (Matthew 5:18 -19).
True, men got benefit from keeping the Sabbath Law, but that did not make them lords over the Sabbath. Humankind benefits from the rain that falls, but that does not make them lords over the rain. So that weak logic easily fails.
I can readily see how Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus, as YHWH, authored the Sabbath Law. In fact, as Creator, Jesus rested on the 7th day and thus invented the first Sabbath observance. As YHWH Jesus accepts the worship given by the Jews on the Sabbath. So, yes, I can see how Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
Nonetheless, I am curious, in what meaningful way was man supposed to be lord over the Sabbath since he could not create it, change it, and had to obey it or be executed?

Moshe wrote:

I know of a rock singer who proclaimed himself as the original Lord of the Darkness decades ago, so what?

Moshe, EXACTLY! Alleging to have a grand title like "Lord of the Sabbath" is meaningless and laughable without the power and authority that goes with it.

Moshe wrote:

We're still waiting for Jesus to keep his promises.

The WTS has this wrong. All the promises that YHWH/Jesus made about the remnant of Israel all getting saved, living in safety, living long healthy lives, and having the Lord rule the world from Jerusalem is all still coming, still future. Right after the Great Tribulation Jesus will install Himself as King of the Earth for 1000 years. Every promise will be fulfilled, then.

100

To you what was the Watchtower Socity's biggest lie ?

by The Almighty Homer in

yes, what was the biggest lie that you can think of, that persuaded you to realize that they were not who they said they were ?.

for myself it would have to be the year they picked as the destruction of ancient jerusalem 607 bc.. i have an assumption this was done purposely to coincide correctly with making 1914 an a important pivotal date.

in human history, which by all factual evidence it was not.. unassuming and deceiving manipulation for self marketing purposes.

EverAStudent

Another poster already listed the biggest lie: that Jesus is only a god.

The 2nd biggest: that God's "true" name is Jehovah. There is so much wrong with that one, beginning with the fact that the name Jehovah originated from a translator's mistake.

--for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous , is a jealous God-- (Exodus 34:14)

For thus says the high and exalted One Who lives forever, whose name is Holy , "I dwell on a high and holy place, And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit In order to revive the spirit of the lowly And to revive the heart of the contrite. (Isaiah 57:15)

"Therefore, I will make you go into exile beyond Damascus," says the LORD, whose name is the God of hosts . (Amos 5:27)

And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS , AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:16)

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God , Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)

"In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The LORD our righteousness .' (Jeremiah 23:6)

---

Regarding the biggest lie, that Jesus is only one of many gods, consider the following passage: The Lamb and the Father sit on the same throne (one singular throne in the Greek) and all the redeemed have one name written on them, "His" name, singular, because the Lamb and the Father share one name: YHWH / LORD.

There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; they will see His face, and His namewill be on their foreheads. (Revelation 22:3-4)

14

Moses's mistake

by highdose in

ok heres another thing that always worried and puzzled me... moses made great sacrifices to lead the isrealites and endured great hardship to do so... but he makes one mistake and suddenly all that counts for nothing and he gets no rewards for his pains at all!????!.

this has never seemed fair to me.

basicly what is seems to be saying is that you can lead a exemplary life at great cost to your self, but if you make one mistake... thats it youv'e blown it!.

EverAStudent

inkie noted that Moses is an eternally saved man, written in the Lamb's Book of Life even though he did not get to enter geographic Israel.

Yes, Moses sinned. His corporeal penalty was to not enter the promised land with the rest of the nation. Very sad.

But why did God think this one sin was such a big deal? Because this one sin messed up a beautiful typeology that God was putting into the history book. The first time the Jews needed water (water being a "symbol" or "type" for being cleansed from sin) it required that the "rock" be struck--Jesus was struck for our sins.

and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:4)

The next time the Jews needed water (cleansing from sin) Moses angrily struck the rock instead of speaking to it. The symbolism that would have been demonstrated is that the Rock / Christ only needed to be struck / killed one time for all forgiveness and cleansing from sins. After His resurrection it only requires that one pray to the Rock / Christ to receive that complete forgiveness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

As a result of our prayer, Jesus cleanses us from every single unrighteousness. Every one. No grudge, no need to earn forgiveness. No fear of it being held against us later. Forgiven just for praying.

If you accept the symbolism you can see why it was such a big deal that Moses messed this up. If you reject the typology/symbolism, then it is a perplexing and meaningless story.

52

The Title Jesus Gave Himself: Lord of the Sabbath

by EverAStudent in

jw
friends

i have been reading and investigating matthew 12:1-8. jesus is accused of breaking the law of the seventh day of rest, the sabbath.

he defends himself and then caps the discussion by declaring himself to be "the lord of the sabbath.

" since only yhwh was ever known as the lord of the sabbath (the one who created, owned, and received worship on the sabbath) i can find no other valid meaning for the title jesus gave to himself, except that he is calling himself god.. what meaning does the wts put on this title, since i know they are not willing to allow jesus to call himself yhwh?.

EverAStudent

Greetings all.

Leolaia, I appreciate your sharing a sampling of those authors who hold the minority view (i.e. “the sons of men are lords of the Sabbath”).

PSacramento, thank you for your ongoing interest in the subject.

As I have been away from posting for a while, I have had time to think through it a bit. I tried to contemplate how it made sense in light of the gospel story that all humanity were “lords of the Sabbath.”

In what way could all men be lords of the Sabbath? Did they create the Sabbath Law? No, YHWH did. Did men have the ability to change the regulations of the Sabbath Law? No, if they had broken the Sabbath (like picking up fire wood) they would have been executed (Numbers 15:32-35) . Did men have the authority to ignore the Sabbath Law? No, Jesus told them they must obey the entire Law in spirit and in letter (Matthew 5:18-19).

True, men got benefit from keeping the Sabbath Law, but that did not make them lords over the Sabbath. Humankind benefits from the rain that falls, but that does not make them lords over the rain. So that weak logic easily fails.

I can readily see how Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus, as YHWH, authored the Sabbath Law. In fact, as Creator, Jesus rested on the 7 th day and thus invented the first Sabbath observance. As YHWH Jesus accepts the worship given by the Jews on the Sabbath. So, yes, I can see how Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

Nonetheless, I am curious, in what meaningful way was man supposed to be lord over the Sabbath since he could not create it, change it, and had to obey it or be executed?