GinnyTosken

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Posts by GinnyTosken

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  14

  How do you spell God?

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this summer i wanted to give my son a religious education.

  by "religious education" i mean that i wanted to educate him about various religions without indoctrinating him to believe any specific way.

  i want him to be knowledgable enough to be culturally literate and able to make an informed decision about his spiritual needs.. we have been reading together in genesis, but i also browsed at the library to find a book that might give us more detail about specific religious beliefs.

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  GinnyTosken

  Thanks, Zazu!

  It sounds like a great book, and I would love to know the title so I can find it.

  Ginny
• 
  14

  How do you spell God?

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this summer i wanted to give my son a religious education.

  by "religious education" i mean that i wanted to educate him about various religions without indoctrinating him to believe any specific way.

  i want him to be knowledgable enough to be culturally literate and able to make an informed decision about his spiritual needs.. we have been reading together in genesis, but i also browsed at the library to find a book that might give us more detail about specific religious beliefs.

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  GinnyTosken

  Bboyneko,

  In chat earlier today, Moxy also suggested that I not protect my son from material like this and use the book to educate in deceptive arguments. Thank you to both of you for the suggestion. I think it's a very good one.

  Ginny
• 
  14

  How do you spell God?

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this summer i wanted to give my son a religious education.

  by "religious education" i mean that i wanted to educate him about various religions without indoctrinating him to believe any specific way.

  i want him to be knowledgable enough to be culturally literate and able to make an informed decision about his spiritual needs.. we have been reading together in genesis, but i also browsed at the library to find a book that might give us more detail about specific religious beliefs.

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  GinnyTosken

  This summer I wanted to give my son a religious education. By "religious education" I mean that I wanted to educate him about various religions without indoctrinating him to believe any specific way. I want him to be knowledgable enough to be culturally literate and able to make an informed decision about his spiritual needs.

  We have been reading together in Genesis, but I also browsed at the library to find a book that might give us more detail about specific religious beliefs. I found one that looked very promising. It is called How Do You Spell God?: Answers to the Big Questions from Around the World. The authors are Rabbi Marc Gellman and Monsignor Thomas Hartman, and it contains a foreward by the Dalai Lama.

  The table of contents lists chapters such as:

  What's a Religion?
  How Are Religions the Same?
  How Are Religions Different?
  What Questions Does Each Religion Want to Answer the Most?
  What Are the Holy Times in My Life?
  Why Do Religions Split Up?
  Who Works for God?
  Why Does Bad Stuff Happen to Good Folks?
  What Happens After We Die?
  What Are Some of the Bad Things in Religions?
  What Are Some of the Terrific Things in Religions?

  This looked to me to be a fair and balanced discussion of religion.

  I was shocked and dismayed to discover that the book is prejudiced against people who choose not to practice a religion. Here is what I read on page 3:

  If you live long enough, you will meet somebody who hates religions. One of the things the people who hate religions say a lot is, "Religions divide people and teach them to hate each other." This is ridiculous, and here's what we say to people who don't like religions: "Look around this world! Look at the people who are doing good stuff, the people who are giving out soup to hungry folks who have no money to pay for the soup, the people who are building houses for folks who have no money to pay for the houses, the people who are talking care of little children who nobody wants to take care of--the good people. Can't you see that lots of these people doing good stuff have a religion that taught them to do it?"

  The authors used a logical fallacy called "red herring":

  http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

  They avoided the charge that religions divide people and teach them to hate others and focused instead on the good works done by religious people.

  Then we say, "Look around this world at the people who are doing bad stuff. The people who kill folks for no reason, the people who hurt folks for 'fun,' the people who beat up people because of the color of their skin, the people who cheat and lie and steal and throw their beer cans out of the windows of their cars--the bad people. Can't you see that none of these people learned how to do that bad stuff from a religion?"

  I was appalled at reading this. One paragraph after the charge that religion divides people, the authors are dividing people into "good" and "bad" people. They insinuate that bad people certainly cannot be religious. They overlook people who have killed others because of their religion or because the victims happened to be occupying a "promised land" or holy ground. Evidently the authors themselves feel a bit uncomfortable with their statement, because in the next paragraph they say:

  We know that you can be a good person even if you have no religion. You can do good things not because you learned them from a religion but because you just learned them from good people. We know that there are creeps in religion and good folks who aren't religious, but here's the thing: The teachings of religion are behind all the good things people do.

  The attempt at being fair and unprejudiced is undercut by that last statement: The teachings of religion are behind all the good things people do. What a presumptuous thing to say! The teachings of which religion, I wonder?

  The main thing is to do good stuff and not to worry so much about where it comes from.

  Yet, evidently the authors do, in their insistence that religion is behind all the good things people do.

  But when somebody says that religions divide people and teach them to hate each other, you should stand up and tell them they are full of baloney.

  Yes, my child. Don't worry about proof or history or any of that. "Full of baloney" is a solid retort!

  If they don't want to listen to you, just pick yourself up and go somewhere else where the good people are trying to fix the world with other good people who don't really care that much how they got to be good.

  Ah, yes. You already know that non-religious people are the bad people, so don't worry about listening to their point of view; your main concern is that they listen to you. Hanging around people who are the same as you and never challenge your beliefs is much better than diversity.

  Needless to say, I did not use this book in my son's summer religious education.

  Ginny
• 
  76

  i gave my word

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ginny, you said, .

  i understand the thinking, i guess, it's just that i was never (am not) that way.

  if i am a laughingstock, it is only because i believed the way you presented yourself.

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  GinnyTosken

  Hi, Teejay,

  You must remember that I am a working girl. I work three 12-hour shifts, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, in a small town about 1-1/2 hours from home. I stay with my sister and usually take a break from the world of jw.com.

  As for my saying I'm a man... Bigboi laughed at my joke, but as seems typical of you, you took it quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.

  Your erroneous assumption that Bigboi "laughed" at your joke is what is sadly laughable, as you have discovered (will you do the right thing and apologize for what you said about me above?).

  Teejay, if I had a dollar for every time you felt you or someone else were owed an apology, I’d be a rich woman by now. I thought Bigboi understood that I was making a joke; I see I was mistaken. We can all laugh together now.

  I do not apologize for calling you a laughingstock because I still believe it’s true. Not only did you take my original comment seriously, but you also persist in the s/he him/her stuff and take me to task for heinous deception and egregious dishonesty. If my worst sin is making what I thought was an obvious joke, I think I can sleep at night.

  If I am a laughingstock, it is only because I believed the way you presented yourself. In other words, I believed what you said. My bad. When it comes to "Ginny," I'm waay more careful now, believe me.

  So, did you believe the agent stuff, too? Didn’t it strike you as a bit odd that a Big Hairy Hoss would want to dress up in a sexy policewoman outfit, fishnet stockings, and high heels?

  I have more confessions, Teejay. The picture I use with my posts—the woman on the green background? That is not really me. It is just a drawing I scanned from the old orange Paradise book. And my name is not really “Ginny.” It is Lola, L-O-L-A Lola, and I like to spend my evenings in in a club down in North Soho where you drink champagne and it tastes just like Coca Cola.

  Actually, had I been paying closer attention rather than giving you the benefit of the doubt as I did, I wouldn't have been surprised by your latest flop (or is it "flip) that you are female. In the asshole wars thread, you'd admitted to having used several different aliases in the past, in other words admitting to a little deception, in presenting yourself untruthfully. JanH once pointed to the heinous nature of such an act in the case of DC's Ghost, Suzi Mahem, Acapulco Gold, etal, but when it's you and others of the "more established posters" set, then it's okay. (This is one of the double standards inherent with some that I find so egregious. One does something and it's considered good/bad... someone else does the exact same thing and it's given the opposite connotation. In another thread, Cornerstone, in pointing to a similar phenomenon here on JW.com--if not in life--said: "POLITICS." That might be the word I'm looking for.)

  Is this the best you can do in digging up some dirt on me? Remind me never to invite you to a masquerade party; I’m sure you’d be offended.

  Yes, I have also posted as Ginger, AbFabPatsy, and BarneyFife. Ginger bantered with the Professor and other male posters. AbFabPatsy and BarneyFife each made one comment, both intended to be funny and both direct quotes from the characters. My intent was entirely playful.

  When Simon exposed multiple identities, he and several of our colleagues on this board forgave me my heinous sins. Although my screen was like scarlet, it was washed clean and became as white as snow.

  You could start a new thread about Dark Clouds, Suzi Mayhem, and Acapulco Gold. JanH thought they were all one person. The nicks came from the same ISP address, but DC and Suzi said they were several people sharing the same computer. I don’t know which is true and left it as a matter between them and Simon. If you think this is a case of politics, please take it up with Simon. I had no control over his decision.

  Still, to find fault with and disparage me for simply thinking that you are a man (and referring to you as such) is a bit disingenuous, wouldn't you say? Afterall, we haven't met. The only contact I have with you is through the reading of what you post. You offer no photo as part of your user profile and even if you did, would I have good reason to disbelieve it was actually you, considering your admitted past deceptions? Yes I would. Such a photo would have zero credibility with me. I'm just being honest.

  I said, “ . . .you took it [my joke] quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.” I am being quite candid and sincere. You did take my joke literally, and for those who have met me and know that I am very much a woman, it is funny that all this time you’ve been picturing me as a big mean hairy hoss. What makes it even more hilarious is that you persist and make a federal case out of it. Not even a photo could convince you. Ginny is the evil mistress of deception.

  Interesting. You're the second, maybe the third person who's made the statement that teejay has no redeeming qualities (norm and janh were the others). It's a good thing that my self-image is totally disconnected from yours in this and every other matter, eh? <g> While I admit that there are some who have said things and posted things that I don't agree with or care for, I'd never say the author had NO redeeming qualities, but that's me. It's telling that you see yourself in such a circumstance as to be able to confidently do so. Wow.

  Please read my statement again, Teejay. I carefully worded it because I have never known anyone without some redeeming qualities. I also understand that there are facets of your personality others may know and love that I may not have seen on this board. I said, “I . . . patiently wait to see these redeeming qualities, but plainly stated, based on what I've seen of you on this board, you disgust me.”

  Ginny
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  29

  looking for farkel

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is an example of farkel's work online?

  if so, would someone please provide the link?

  i've been told that it takes him up to a week to compose one of his pieces of work.

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  GinnyTosken

  Bigboi,

  Oh, dear! It was not my intent to mislead you as to my gender. I thought that my comment was obviously in jest, especially in the context of referring to myself as "agent Ginny."

  Actually, what happened was that Jan made a mistake in one of his pro-atheist arguments. Alan, chomping his cigar, decided there must be damage control. We all gathered for a conference call and decided that the best strategy was for Jan to distract everyone from the atheist thread by insulting Riz. It seems we used excessive force, so Norm was called in to divert from the damage done by the damage control by distracting everyone with humor. This strategy, too, backfired, and so agent Ginny was called in to smooth things over. . . .

  Ginny & teejay:
  So are you two gonna bone or what?

  ONE....

  bigboi

  Bigboi,

  Actually, I'm a man. "Ginny" is just my agent persona.

  Big Mean Hairy Hoss

  Lest I have misled you in other ways, to my knowledge, Alan does not smoke or chomp cigars.

  As for Teejay, I understand that you may know him better than I do, and I respect your right to form your own opinion and choose your own friends. I agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I do not think your regard for Teejay makes you a toady or sycophant. I only wish he would make the same allowance for the opinions and friendships of others.

  I sympathize with your troubles, Bigboi. Several years ago, I was fired myself for a reason I felt was unjust. I was depressed at the time anyway, and the firing made it worse. I was unemployed for over a year and eventually evicted from my apartment. My son and I stayed for awhile in a homeless shelter. It took awhile, but I did bounce back. I hope you can do the same, Bigboi.

  As for Farkel's behavior, I think each of us must choose individually how we react. Understanding why a person behaves as he does is not the same as making excuses for his behavior. My child may be tired and irritable and slap another child. While I love him and understand why he did it, I do not approve of the slap. At the same time, I may realize that tired and irritable as my child is, the time is not right to explain why slapping is wrong or to make him apologize. I would probably apologize myself, remove my child, put him down for a nap, and talk to him when he was in a better frame of mind.

  As I see it, the situation with Farkel is similar, with the big difference that Farkel is an adult and only he can give himself a time out. Even as adults, we sometimes behave in childish ways. I have done it myself, especially when I am hurting.

  As a JW, I shunned people when their behavior did not conform to certain standards. As an ex-JW, I am slowly learning to accept human failings, especially in myself. I have learned that loving someone means accepting that person in all their humanity--on good days and on bad days. I try to have compassion. (I'm obviously having a difficult time with Teejay.) I hope that others will love me in the same way, even when I am unlovable. That's usually when we need love the most.

  This is my choice with Farkel. I do not expect everyone to conform to it. I did want to explain.

  Ginny
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  29

  looking for farkel

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is an example of farkel's work online?

  if so, would someone please provide the link?

  i've been told that it takes him up to a week to compose one of his pieces of work.

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  GinnyTosken

  Teejay,

  Your laziness is an assumption on my part. I only know of you what I've seen on this board. My thoughts on this matter closely follow Mommie Dark's. You say you used to participate on H2O, where Farkel was quite active, yet you evidently missed his posts. You know Farkel used to participate on H2O, yet evidently failed to look at the archives. Big Jim posted Farkel's material, yet seemingly you missed those, too. Scorpion mentioned that Farkel's material is on Randy Watters' site, but that, too, eluded you. Given your attitude in these threads, why should I or anyone else go out of our way to help you find Farkel's material?

  As for my saying I'm a man, anyone who is interested may read my comment in context at the end of the Asshole Wars thread. It is easy to find on the stats page. Bigboi laughed at my joke, but as seems typical of you, you took it quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.

  There are people on this board who like and respect you. I cannot for the life of me understand why. I realize it is a bit like me and Farkel; perhaps they have a history with you that I do not. I try my best to answer you civilly and patiently wait to see these redeeming qualities, but plainly stated, based on what I've seen of you on this board, you disgust me, Teejay.

  Ginny
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  29

  looking for farkel

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is an example of farkel's work online?

  if so, would someone please provide the link?

  i've been told that it takes him up to a week to compose one of his pieces of work.

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  GinnyTosken

  Teejay,

  I do not consider myself a Farkel sycophant, but in deference to your laziness, I offer the following:

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/basics.htm

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/attack.htm

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/moyle.htm

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/doug2.htm

  You can find much more in the H2O archives:

  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/h2o.htm

  I thought you spent some time on H2O? I thought surely you would have seen Farkel's writing there.

  Ginny
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  57

  What's your favorite line from a movie?

  by Isis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...or least favorite?.

  just for fun of course.. i just posted on the top 10 movies to take on a desert island and it had me wonder.. anyways....as to my favorite:.

  "there is no spoon.

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  GinnyTosken

  Ooooh, Pierced Angel! I love Mae West, too!

  Favorite quote:

  I only like two kinds of men: domestic and imported.
  --Mae West

  Ginny
• 
  57

  What's your favorite line from a movie?

  by Isis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...or least favorite?.

  just for fun of course.. i just posted on the top 10 movies to take on a desert island and it had me wonder.. anyways....as to my favorite:.

  "there is no spoon.

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  GinnyTosken

  From Casablanca:

  Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?

  Rick: If I gave you any thought, I probably would.
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  13

  the new personality

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would like to start a discussion thread as it relates to mind control and the tactics which are used.

  "brothers, keep on putting on the new peronality..." - how well do you remember that?.

  suggested discussions are:.

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  GinnyTosken

  This chart succinctly describes the differences between education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination, and thought control.

  http://www.workingpsychology.com/ethics2.html

  My own assessment of the Society, using this chart, is as follows:

  Relationship & Exchange
  Authoritarian & hierarchical but also consensual & contractual
  Indoctrination

  Deceptiveness
  Infrequently intentionally deceptive, often selective.
  Indoctrination

  Methods
  Coercive compliance (punishment) condoned.
  Indoctrination

  Goals
  (I'm not sure about this one.)

  A cohesive & effective group?
  Indoctrination

  or

  Perpetuation of the group for money or power?
  Thought Control

  or

  Sale of product or service?
  Advertising

  Ginny