You've got to keep in mind that Cofty used to be a JW preacher, used to be a preachy born again Christian, and now he's a preachy atheist. He just has to preach, period.
fukitol
JoinedPosts by fukitol
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113
I am deeply ashamed that I didn't accept evolution until a few years ago...
by ILoveTTATT2 inso... i live in mexico and i am helping with an esl class (english as a second language).
actually, i am helping with two classes.
i get two days a week in which i just stand there and have a debate with the class, encouraging as many as possible to just talk... in english.. anyways, i like talking about subjects that generate debate.
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
So you are defending the JWS stance then, Cold Steel, but from an orthodox Christian perspective?
If you don't believe humans are capable of ever ruling ourselves, then in what way are we in God's image? Humans are imbued with the same inherent faculties and qualities of God and Jesus to achieve more or less anything, as was admitted at the Tower of Babel, but it stops short of self determination? Why?
And how is it that all known offspring eventually matures and leaves it's parents and becomes independent of its parents authority, but not humans? How unnatural.
Contradiction upon contradiction.
Anyway, you missed the obvious orthodox Christian rebuttal of my thought experiment: sin and death.
God's intervention and the ransom sacrifice was needed to free the human race from Adamic sin and death...right?
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A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul
by nicolaou in1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.
and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .
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fukitol
I can't understand why the idea of resurrection should be incredible
I find it incredible to read such a daft statement. It's like saying "I can't understand why the idea of fairies living at the bottom of my garden should be incredible."
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
Not so Saename. JW theology teaches that after the millennial reign and final test (further global genocidal culling), surviving mankind will be in a restored state as perfect sons of God again, like Adam was, with Jehovah as their direct heavenly father without a mediator and no 144k ruling over them. So it will be like a family relationship. This is what the JWS teach.
But what sort of family is it when the children are forever under their parents authority? Since no father wants to rule or govern over his grown up children and if perfect humans are in their father Jehovahs image, then we were created ultimately to govern ourselves.
The point I'm trying to make is that this means there is no need for God to ever intervene in human affairs because his original purpose was in fact for us to eventually govern ourselves independently anyway. He's left us to it because he knows we'll get there eventually.
Jehovah wanted humankind to get to that state of independence without experiencing suffering and death, but he knew it would be impossible without their experientially learning the difference between good and bad. His children had to suffer, to go through the school of hard knocks, to learn and grow and become like their heavenly father. Satan didn't really lie about that. The only way for us to truly learn the difference between good and bad is to be free to make our own choices and learn the consequences for ourselves. Jehovah knew it and had to let the 'rebellion' happen.
I'm just trying to get JW lurkers to stretch their minds in contemplating these inherent contradictions in the dogmas they've been taught by WBTS regarding free will, why God permits suffering, etc.
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
No, of course not, I'm more or less an atheist. But it's an argument as if I might be a JW.
Don't get all ad hominim.
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
Nicolau, if Adam and Eve hadn't have sinned, would they need ruling over by God? Jehovah was their parent, not their eternal ruler.
What is the point of the 144,000 and who do they comprise? They are human corulers ruling over humanity. God is not ruling during the millennial reign, mankind is ruled by humans in heaven. Technically the 144k rule equally with Jesus, they are not subservient to him.
And there are references in Revelation to kings on earth, after the millennial reign.
Jehovah granted the Israelites request to have a human king, although he warned it would bring trouble (because they were appointing a human dictator). God recognised the Israelites right to self-rule, as imperfect as the arrangement was.
What normal father does not naturally want and lovingly nurture his children to become mature, independent, self sufficient, morally responsible persons? It's an intractable contradiction for JWs to claim God is there father and that they are his children but that they are forever incapable of independent self rule.
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
I agree, Smiddy, that the theory doesn't fit snuggly with those who take a literalistic JW interpretation of the Bible.
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If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself
by fukitol inall parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.
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fukitol
All parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.
No normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.
So if Jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'Father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.
If you believe in the Biblical narrative, Jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready. This was as naturally a part of God's purpose as it is natural for all living beings to let go of their matured offspring.
Satan merely brought this plan forward. He always knew Jehovah intended mankind to govern itself eventually, but he forced Jehovah into giving mankind its independence prematurely through his interference in the garden of Eden. He claimed in the garden of Eden that mankind must learn morality and ethics by itself, the hard way, and in order to advance scientifically, so as to be fully self sufficient and ultimately govern itself successfully. Jehovah was forced to agree, despite knowing that his naive, inexperienced children would suffer terribly and hoping to mitigate that suffering.
The upshot of this? God will NEVER intervene in human affairs. There is no need of a thousand year reign or paradise earth, preceded by a global divine genocide at Armageddon.
As God's children in his image, it was always our inherent and divine destiny to govern ourselves, freely, without interference or being dictated to by some autocratic parent in heaven. This was always Jehovahs will; we have just been forced to get there the hard way, by ourselves. But we are and we will get there, slowly but surely, and painfully.
And that destiny includes advanced longevity (likely a thousand years maximum), through medical and and robotic science and innovation. In fact, the scientific foundation for this already exists and is being pursued.
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A religion or OCPD?
by Xanthippe ini came across this paragraph about the causes of ocpd and it occurred to me that jws as a religion do reward ocpd traits.
they insist you adhere to rules and behaviours to the impairment of social and family activities.
perfectionism, strict moral code, lack of generosity.. so does this religion cause this personality disorder or does it recruit people who suffer from it?.
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fukitol
What do you mean by 'both disorders'? I only see one as the topic of discussion: OCD?
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If a JW Came To Your Door How Would You Handle It?
by minimus injehovah's witnesses have never come to my door but they have come to my girlfriends door.
i have coached her as to what to say or ask but it appears that they always seem to come when she's not there.
.....just curious would you get into it with a jehovah's witness at your door especially if it was someone you did not know?.
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fukitol
Turn around, pull your pants down, and give them a moonie.
You can only reason with an unreasoning asshole by showing them what they are.