Posts by DT

No offense taken. I don't think it would be a big issue, unless you take the pictures from inside a Kingdom Hall and there are people who have a desire to make a big deal about it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are willing to make a big deal about it in the case of Watchtower Comments. Also, there are accusations that "Knocking" used footage of people without their permission. I would hate for the critics of "Knocking" to even appear to make the same mistake.

4

Big News About "Knocking" on Youtube!

by DT in

i think i uncovered an important development in the "knocking"/youtube controversy.

a few days ago i was reviewing the knocking excerpts on youtube and paying attention to their viewer stats and whether they allowed comments.

none of the videos i saw were allowing comments.

DT

I think I uncovered an important development in the "Knocking"/Youtube controversy. A few days ago I was reviewing the Knocking excerpts on Youtube and paying attention to their viewer stats and whether they allowed comments. None of the videos I saw were allowing comments. There were several videos posted by knockingdocumentary. Independent Lens also had a short excerpt and PBS had what what appeared to be the same clip posted. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I seem to recall that one of the short clips form either PBS or Independent Lens had over 160,000 views and that the other also had high viewer stats. I don't believe either were allowing comments.

I checked the videos again today. Here are the links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5DRgpQmoqE 360 views, 9 comments, posted by Independent Lens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4agnPkzM01M 4042 views, 27 comments, posted by PBS

I wish I better understood how Youtube works. It appears they replaced old comments. The viewer stats went way down, but I don't know if these videos have the same links as before. It almost looks like they reset them to an earlier date. They do appear to be further down in the search results.

The videos posted by knockingdocumentary appear unchanged and are still not allowing comments.

There are a lot of questions. I invite your thoughts. I wonder if PBS and Independent Lens observed the controversy about Knocking's legal threats and decided it was a bad idea to not allow comments on a controversial film that is accused of being very biased. If so, I commend them. I think they made the right decision. Knockingdirector has the right to not allow comments. However, it speaks very poorly for their objectivity and their willingness to allow the public to hear all the facts.

I don't recommend flooding these videos with comments, because that will only increase their popularity, but it would be good to make sure that critical opinions are properly represented.

I noticed something else. On another thread, Knocking responded to an email by saying they don't approve of anyone using their footage without permission and that they send cease and desist orders to both JWs and nonJWs. I found a Youtube user named Paulayahoo. She appears to be a Jehovah's Witness and has numerous proJW videos on her channel, including these videos that are copied from the Knocking documentary or special features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmf-3S28rw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnPQsZE_GBU

These are not three second fair use clips for the purpose of commentary or criticism. They are several minutes long without commentary. It might be good for some of us to email the Knocking directors and find out if this user has permission to use these clips. Their email address is at this link. http://www.knocking.org/getinfo.lasso (I'm sorry, but I have reasons to not correspond with them at this time.) If they didn't grant permission, it would be only fair for them to send that user a cease and desist notice. That is supposedly their policy. If they granted permission, it makes them look bad for allowing them this extensive use of copyrighted material while issuing legal threats against a critic who used three seconds of footage in a manner that may be fair use. It might be their right to have this contradictory stand, but, once again, it would speak poorly for their fairness.

44

How to get WT Comments videos back up (with Knocking section)

by Burger Time in

jw
friends

ok i think the best way to go about this is make this a david vs goliath issue.

we should email every news outlet/online outlet we can think of.

attach a copy of the email sent and make some bad publicity for pbs.

DT

Would pictures I capture on my cellphone be considered mine, by copyright?

I think you would have the copyright. The problem is that that are other laws that might prevent you from using it. You would probably need the permission of the people in the photograph and the property owner. Youtube also has it's own policies about this.

44

How to get WT Comments videos back up (with Knocking section)

by Burger Time in

jw
friends

ok i think the best way to go about this is make this a david vs goliath issue.

we should email every news outlet/online outlet we can think of.

attach a copy of the email sent and make some bad publicity for pbs.

DT

Burger Time,

Thank you for posting that response. I would consider that to be confirmation that they issued the threats. Obviously, they prefer that nobody use their footage without permission. The problem is that there are other rights involved. The public has a right to debate and the law recognises that this may include the use of small, fair use pieces of copyrighted works. They didn't comment on fair use in their response. It appears their position is that fair use doesn't apply in their case. I don't believe that position can be defended either morally or legally. Furthermore, they are documentary film makers. I would be very surprised if they never made fair use of copyrighted works. It's also ironic that there are allegations that they used footage of individuals without their permission.

It should also be pointed out that they shot that footage with the permission of the Watchtower Society. How likely is it that the Watchtower Society would give apostates permission to shoot similar footage in a kingdom hall? It's very biased to produce a proJW piece that omits important facts while denying critics the right to debate the issues in a reasonable manner.

I think their legal position is week, even if they have the power to force this issue in a practical way. Morally, I think their position is indefensible.

16

Elders Must Testify; Attorneys to Appeal

by Kenneson in

jw
friends

sorry if this has been posted before, but i just came across it.. "jehovah's witnesses elders must tesfify in murrieta molestation case, judge rules".

http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/pe_news_local_h_faith26.4193557.html.

DT

I wonder if this will change the way Jehovah's Witnesses conduct judicial hearings. If the communication isn't confidential, more people will want to have lawyers present or record the proceedings. The power of the elders will be compromised if no one is willing to talk to them or admit to wrongdoing. They may have to decide more cases without the input of the accused.

44

How to get WT Comments videos back up (with Knocking section)

by Burger Time in

jw
friends

ok i think the best way to go about this is make this a david vs goliath issue.

we should email every news outlet/online outlet we can think of.

attach a copy of the email sent and make some bad publicity for pbs.

DT

DT you should be fine emailing them back...if not I could email for you. Of course if someone here emailed for you they would need the original carbon copy of the email sent to you.

The thing is I received a harassing email with false accusations at an email address I rarely use. I would prefer to not even dignify it with a response, if I can avoid it. I'm also concerned that if it was sent from that address without authorisation, then I'm not sure if I can trust the response either. I don't want to give them one of my other email addresses or my physical address. I don't expect anyone else to contact them in my behalf, but a simple inquiry as to whether they are behind these threats would be appreciated. Any response or lack of a response would be interesting.

If I have to, I might set up a new email address for the sole purpose of corresponding with them.

Does anyone have contact information? I can always research it myself but I thought it might be faster if someone has already found it.

The email address can be found on this page http://www.knocking.org/getinfo.lasso

44

How to get WT Comments videos back up (with Knocking section)

by Burger Time in

jw
friends

ok i think the best way to go about this is make this a david vs goliath issue.

we should email every news outlet/online outlet we can think of.

attach a copy of the email sent and make some bad publicity for pbs.

DT

LEOS,

Welcome to JWD. It's funny that "Knocking" is making a big deal of three seconds of film while they are using video of people without permission. I don't know how strong you legal position is, but you are certainly justified in making a complaint. I wouldn't be too surprised if they offered you a small settlement to avoid other problems. I would like to hear what their response is.

44

How to get WT Comments videos back up (with Knocking section)

by Burger Time in

jw
friends

ok i think the best way to go about this is make this a david vs goliath issue.

we should email every news outlet/online outlet we can think of.

attach a copy of the email sent and make some bad publicity for pbs.

DT

I like your ideas. I think we should make a big deal about this. At the moment, we still need some information. The videos were listed as private. Now, I can't even get that message. We need to find out if they have been removed by Youtube or will be removed soon. We also need to confirm that the directors of "Knocking" sent those threats. The one I received was from the same email address that is listed at the "Knocking" website contact page. http://www.knocking.org/getinfo.lasso

I heard that it's possible to make an email appear to come from a certain email address. Is anyone willing to email or mail the "Knocking" people to see if they will confirm these threats. They threatened to sue me, so I'm reluctant to correspond with them until I have more information. It might also be good for them to get some emails so they know that some of us are pretty upset about these threats.

V could fight a take down notice, but I doubt it would be worth it. He would have to disclose his Identity and contact information and increase his risk of being sued. The videos would still be down for an extended period of time, so he would probably have to upload edited videos anyways.

Regardless of what happens with the videos. I think it is a good idea to give this issue some publicity. I can't say if the three seconds were fair use. I don't think anyone can. The laws are vague and individual cases have to be decided in courts. I think an excellent case can be made for fair use and the court of public opinion would likely view it that way. Many people use much longer clips under the defense of fair use. I have to wonder, if three seconds isn't fair use, what is? It's not defensible to claim that you can't make any fair use of their footage. Perhaps V should have credited the source. However, credit doesn't substitute for permission. I also suspect that a credit from an "apostate" video would have only made the "Knocking" people more angry.

I'm waiting to get more information, then I will be blogging about this and link to sites and article that discuss the issues that "Knocking" chose to ignore.

10

E-mailed legal theats (re: V's Watchtower Comments videos)

by B_Deserter in

jw
friends

i just did some searching and found one thing about cease-and-desist letters.

basically, they're not legally binding, but a threat of legal action.

now, for e-mail, the source of the message can be easily manipulated and falsified.

DT

Thank you for this information.

Now, for e-mail, the source of the message can be easily manipulated and falsified.

I was wondering about that. I would suspect the notices to be fake, except the videos are gone. They are listed as private. I assume Youtube did this, unless V did it for some reason. I suppose the request to Youtube could be fake too. It might be worth writing to the directors of Knocking and see if they are willing to confirm or deny that they sent the notices.

I know it's common to send certified letters, but I keep my identity and address private and I'm sure V does too. Certified letters don't appear to be necessary in this case. They can just ask Youtube to remove the videos. If you want to object, you have to go through a procedure that involves sending personal information to Youtube. The contact information is sent to the person claiming copyright infringement. I don't think it would be worth it because then they would have the information they need to sue you.