If I were involved in this situation I would be tempted to attend the appeal staffed by the elders that are defendants in this lawsuit. The result would be virtually guaranteed, but they would have to be very careful to avoid further liability. It could end up being very awkward for them.
Posts by DT
-
65Has anyone heard of "Secret Disfellowshipping" by Jehovah's Witnesses? Menlo Park Ca. Congregation. Update.
by Balaamsass inno doubt everyone has been following the juan viejo postings regarding the watchtower kingdom hall "grab" on jwn for the last couple of years.
called the mrs and me to say "wow- you have to google this" we did...came here to jwn ...became members..and the rest is history.. in the last nine months i have been calling and emailing contacts in the silicon valley for verification on the societies theft and forced sale of the menlo park kingdom hall (near the new facebook heaquarters) because the story seemed...a little far fetched.
every reliable contact i made has confirmed what juan reported.
-
-
-
27
Do Elders Have A Reasonable Expectation Of Privacy During Judicial Committees?
by DT ini should point out that i'm not a lawyer and i'm not qualified to give legal advice.. there has been much discussion about judicial committees lately and how to handle and possibly record them.. naturally, the question of the legality of recording judicial committees is a concern.
my understanding of the law in the u.s. is that it is legal to record private conversations in most states provided at least one party consents to the recording.
in the other states, it is required to get the consent of all parties to record a private conversation.. however, it would be reasonable to ask whether or not a judicial committee is a private conversation and whether the elders have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
-
-
DT
Band on the Run,
Your words of caution are appreciated on this thread and others. It is good advice to consult a lawyer when questions like this arise, especially considering that laws vary by state and that the rights of the religion are often favored over the rights of the individual in this country.
I'm certainly not suggesting that anyone try to get away with this. I am suggesting that the elders should share in some of the fear of the unknown that the accused experience. Their words in these medieval style witch hunts could come back to haunt them and these state laws might not be a protection (in my nonprofessional opinion).
I think it would be interesting to hear what a lawyer would say to an elder who asks about his potential liability during judicial committees and whether a certain state law about recording conversations would protect him.
-
27
Do Elders Have A Reasonable Expectation Of Privacy During Judicial Committees?
by DT ini should point out that i'm not a lawyer and i'm not qualified to give legal advice.. there has been much discussion about judicial committees lately and how to handle and possibly record them.. naturally, the question of the legality of recording judicial committees is a concern.
my understanding of the law in the u.s. is that it is legal to record private conversations in most states provided at least one party consents to the recording.
in the other states, it is required to get the consent of all parties to record a private conversation.. however, it would be reasonable to ask whether or not a judicial committee is a private conversation and whether the elders have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
-
-
DT
I think this would usually be a gray area. Recording a judicial commitee in one of those states could be dangerous legally. A lawsuit or criminal case could be devastating, even if the person wins. However, I believe it would also be dangerous for the elders to assume that they are protected by state law. It's quite possible that a judge would view judicial committees as an exception or that the constitutional rights of the accused trump the state law.
"And yes, both criminal and civil damages can be assessed if you violate the laws. This does not hold for public meetings but any meeting where there can be an expectation of privacy and JC's would definitely be included in that."
I frankly don't see what is definite about judicial committees. Here is an interesting link about a case in Florida http://www.ocala.com/article/20101225/articles/101229821?p=1&tc=pg
Here is an interesting quote. "The courts have gone on to say that in addition to a party expecting privacy at a location, the expectation must include a ‘societal recognition that the expectation is reasonable,' " Haldin quoted from a court decision."
The elders can ask for privacy during a JC but I doubt that society would agree that it is wrong to record a JC for the protection of the accused. Our society values due process and protection of the weak. Most people would be horrified at what goes on in judicial committees and would be in favor of the accused recording it if it helps to protect him in a process that could result in a violation of his religious rights, a breakup of his family and destruction of his reputation.
Furthermore, the elders realize that the results of the JC may be sent to headquarters and possible announced to the congregation. They also know that their statements may later be discussed in an appeal. I don't see how they can claim that they have an expectation of privacy.
-
13
"Do J W's HAve Women Ministers? Sept 1st Watchtower 2012
by BluesBrother inthe sept 1st 2012 watchtower carries the article "our readers ask - do jehovah's witnesses have women ministers?".
the first words of the article provide a straight answer "yes, worldwide jehovah's witnesses have several million women ministers"however, the aricle goes on to explain their limitations in that they are not permitted to teach the congregation, "the audience of their ministry is different" .
they also do not preside or have oversight.. that opening sentence is a masterpiece of fallacious reasoning, using the well established method of equivocation ie.
-
-
DT
This is a blunder that was "evidently" written before the Candace Conti case. Since they have millions of ministers, they have tremendous liability in child abuse cases involving their ministers. Jonathan Kendrick was a minister also and that was a factor in the Watchtower Society's liability.
-
15
New article: "The Girl Who Took On The Watchtower - Candace Conti Speaks Out"
by cedars inin light of the latest videos to be released featuring candace conti and rick simons, i have decided to publish a new blog article on the link below:.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-girl-who-took-on-the-watchtower-candace-conti-speaks-out.
for the most part, i've written this article because i found much of what candace and rick had to say intriguing to say the least.
-
-
DT
Great article.
I found one small part to be confusing. You have a section tiled "Not About Changing Policy". My understanding is that the case wasn't about changing beliefs or doctrines, but that the policies were at issue and that changing them them was one of the motivations for this case.
-
14
Seen on the ground at a relatives' house...
by Jim_TX ina couple of weeks ago, my wife and i visited her aunt on saturday.
when we were leaving, i happened to glance down and spotted some 'trash' that had evidently fallen from the door and was down in and among the potted plants that share the porch space.. i instantly knew what it was from the 'look', and reached down and grabbed it as we were walking to our vehicle.. sure enuf, it was a 4-page small pamphlet... some sort of preaching words... (i didn't read them), and then on the back side was a stamped 'invitation' for the person to go to their district assembly the last week in july.. ummm... belton, tx is about 150 miles away from here.
i'm so sure that someone would drive 150 miles to go to something that they just read about on a pamphlet stuck in their door.
-
-
DT
They will waste all that paper and then ask you to only use one paper towl at the convention.
-
76
Do You Like or Dislike Algebra? Why and Why not?
by Scott77 injuly 28, 2012is algebra necessary?by andrew hacker .
a typical american school day finds some six million high school students and two million college freshmen struggling with algebra.
in both high school and college, all too many students are expected to fail.
-
-
DT
I agree that mathematics should be incorporated into other subjects, including arts and music. I know a mathematician who is also a composer. He commented on this article a little while ago in another forum and pointed out that the author may not realize how complicated the field of mathematics in music is. It starts out easy, but there are numerous websites and discussion forums dedicated to its complexities. I've personally spent years studying and composing in alternate tuning sytems where the ratios of frequencies are different than what we are used to.
-
76
Do You Like or Dislike Algebra? Why and Why not?
by Scott77 injuly 28, 2012is algebra necessary?by andrew hacker .
a typical american school day finds some six million high school students and two million college freshmen struggling with algebra.
in both high school and college, all too many students are expected to fail.
-
-
DT
I remember one time when I was working in construction. A group of guys were crawling around in the rafters of a big building trying to install diagonal bracing. Every measurement was different and they were having a hard time trying get the measurements and figure out the angles. It was such a cumbersome process that they were literally putting their lives in danger.
They asked me to cut some boards for them. I pointed out that I already knew some of the dimensions of the building from the plans and if they just got one more easy measurement per location, I could figure out the measurements and angles from the ground. I often carried a scientific calculator in my tool belt. I just did some basic trigonometry and cut the boards for them. It saved a lot of time and was much more accurate.
There were a lot of other times when some simple mathematics made things easier or safer. There were times when I was called on to install curved forms for concrete. It was common to just eyeball and guestimate the forms, but if you could calculate how long the form was supposed to be, it tended to just fall into place almost perfectly.
-
114
Watchtower and Anonymous Links, Updates, News, etc.
by DT ini wanted to consolidate a lot of the information about the attack of anonymous against the watchtower society.
if you disagree with the tactics of anonymous, that's fine.
this information may still be useful as the public is made more aware of the the dangerous policies of the watchtower society.
-
-
DT
I've heard very little about Anonymous over the last forty-eight hours or so. It could be that the operation is fading away or that little is happening. Or it could be that they are busy preparing documents for a large upload that would be more dramatic that having this information released gradually over time. I found this quote at AnonNews.
"there is a huge leak comming out soon. don't know exactly when but thousends of docs are being scanned as this message is being posted. once leaked anonymous will work togethere to deface all the jw sites. this will cripple them. telling them how they are home to pedofiles and conduct massive money laundering scheams."
We will have to wait and see if this ends up being true.
-
27
Who Like Me, Feel That The Olympics Are About As Exciting To Watch As A Dog Turd Turning White?
by Low-Key Lysmith indiscuss..
-
-
DT
I generally agree, unless the sport involves scantily clad women. Even then, it has to be one of the most boring ways to watch scantily clad women.
I find the winter Olympics to be slightly more interesting.