Posts by BreakingAway

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

BreakingAway

Indeed it is ! I meant Romans.It's now been corrected.Thanks for catching that.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

BreakingAway

God didn't comdemn men to lives filled with frustration. He orchestrated the means by which mankind could receive clemency from its self-inflicted frustrations.

Utter nonsense.If I threw a man into a pit (leading to frustration)and then dangled a rope over the edge and told him to reach it (orchestrated the means for escape), did I still not throw him into the pit ? How can all men who were inflicted by sin through no fault of their own be 'self-inflicted' ? If one believes the bible, it is God himself who admits putting man in this position.

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, ..." Romans 8:20

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

BreakingAway

I agree with what you've said Terry and to be honest this question has plagued me for quite some time, including when I was a Witness.I gave talks as an elder that sought to justify his "allowance" of such cruelty that would never be tolerated by "sinful" humans.

We were always taught that it's all wrapped up in the issue of 'Universal Sovereignty' but if all of this is true then we're nothing more than a bunch of pawns in some galactic chess match ! People say it HAS to play out this way to answer the question once for all eternity, both for humans and angels, but I disagree.Here's why I think it could have been done differently:

At the time Adam and Eve sinned God could have gathered all of the heavenly creatures together and then peered into the future and put it on display as to how things would play out ! (Like some giant big screen tv-didn't Satan take Jesus to a high mountain and show him all of the kingdoms ?)God supposedly gave men like John and others visions of the future (like Revelation) didn't he ? So...he could have said to all of the angels: "Here you see man's future.This is what has become of man when he no longer follows me.See all of the suffering ? See how all of their governments, technology, philosophy,etc. has failed to satisfy man's needs ? See the effects from the lack of guidance ? Of leaving me and abandoning my ways ? You can clearly see that if I allow all of this to play out then all the creatures of the earth will suffer terribly.Therefore, it is in man's best interest that I destroy these two human rebels and all rebellious angels."

Since it's "impossible for God to lie", then no one could accuse Him of making some "false vision" to justify his actions.He would have answered the questions without actually letting them take place, without the actual suffering.

God told Adam that he would die.He did NOT say:"You will condemn all future generations and the creatures of the earth to a life suffering if you disobey me".

This is why I no longer believe in god.He's the most loving, kind, and intelligent being in the entire UNIVERSE and this is what he comes up with ? Something is seriously missing from the big picture.

27

What's wrong with the WTBS in a nushell.

by JeffT in

jw
friends

i realized the other morning that it was twenty years ago that i started my exit.

at the spring 1988 circuit assembly (i think it was in february or march) they absolutely hammered on the point that higher ed was a waste of time.

armageddon was going to happen any day now and there was no point in preparing for life in system that was about to end.

BreakingAway

I'd call the WTBS "squirrely" but I like squirrels.

87

WHAT if we're wrong?

by shell69 in

jw
friends

i mean, i know i'm bitter.. normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.. what i'd give to do the things i was used to.

going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.. a hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me.

i miss her so much.. and what if i'm wrong?.

BreakingAway

Shell 69,

I hope you don't mind but I just wanted to share another thought with you...

If you weren't suffering so severely from the loss of the relationship with your mother would you have any doubts about the Org ?

That's what I meant by the 'organization counting on these things'.They know that if enough pressure is applied ,or a sense of loss is experienced, that many will cave in because they can't take it on their own and just go back to the meetings and the JW way of life.They want to make you think it's all YOUR fault ! Even though it is they who made these policies and it takes individuals to follow and enforce them.Imagine what would happen if every Witness said: "I'm not doing it any more ! ".I'll talk to whomever I want to, I'll love any person I want to, I will no longer support..."

If that happened the Org would change overnight, it would no longer resemble what it once was.The power really does belong to the people and many are leaving the organization everyday.WE have a choice about how to live our life, a choice to be a slave of the WT or live a life of Freedom which seems to scare many.

I don't know if you've told, or have been able to tell your Mom how much you miss her, doing things with her ? But maybe it's time to do it again. To let her know that your decision not to be part of a damaging organization has NOTHING to do with how you feel about her and that NO ONE can stand between your love if you don't let them.We all have a choice.

87

WHAT if we're wrong?

by shell69 in

jw
friends

i mean, i know i'm bitter.. normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.. what i'd give to do the things i was used to.

going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.. a hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me.

i miss her so much.. and what if i'm wrong?.

BreakingAway

I mean, i know I'm bitter.
Normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.
What I'd give to do the things I was used to. Going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.
A hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me. I miss her so much.
And what if I'm wrong?
that I may feel I've set my children free from the religion, but I've condemmmed them to death. god I feel so low, lower than for along time.
Shell

This is what the Organization counts on ! People sticking around "just in case".This is a fear based religion, a cult that seeks to control the mind and life of all who become a part of it.One collective thought, one collective purpose, all others must be shunned.Families turning their backs on each other because they don't go to the meetings ? Because they point out serious errors ? Disfellowshipping over differing views ? Over celebrating their dear childs birthday ? This is NOT love ! It is not truth ! It IS all about Control and Money.Where's the 'natural affection' ? It is a business designed to take advantage of those who are willing to sacrifice everything they have for a chance to get everything they want.I was a Witness for nearly twenty years, six of those as an elder.On many occassions I asked myself, "What am I doing here ? ", "Something is seriously wrong here !! " , but I stuck around for various reasons, family and friends mostly.It turned out that the relationships were superficial, dependent on how much one obeyed the Org.It's sickening to think about so much I, and others, gave up.....years.The youngest years of my life ! This beast preys upon the trusting , those with a good and kind heart, those looking for fulfillment.Then they use them up and spit them out.As one C.O. candidly said: "We get people in the front door and push them out the back ! " So many have been robbed of their identity and self worth.This is NOT the truth.The Org is proud of the way it breaks up families.That one would be willing to give them more loyalty, devotion and love than they would give their own family.Though I no longer believe in the devil, if he did exist...this organization would be just what he's looking for...

25

Repudiate "Valueless Things" 4/15/08 WT

by bud2114 in

hot off the presses - just some of the latest garbage coming out of brooklyn as found in the 1st study article - repudiate "valueless things" (4/15/08 koolaid edition wt): .

par 17: another example of valueless words is found among the religious leaders of christendom.

these claim to speak in god's name, but most of their utterances are not based on the scriptures, and what they have to say is basically worthless.

BreakingAway

I do repudiate valueless things...that's why I left the Org.

27

JW Closet Drinkers

by shamus100 in

jw
friends

how many here have had jw friends that can only have a good time when they drink?

i've known plenty - ones with obvious drinking problems.

not necessarialy alcoholics, but ones that equate good times with drinking, and drinking alone.

BreakingAway

Ah but Ren the rest of the planet is not self righteously proclaiming superiority as god's chosen few.

Excellent comment, that's exactly what I was thinking.The Organization frequently, and aggressively, counsels that : "Just because everybody does it doesn't make it right ! ", as a way to show their standards are far superior to everyone else's.The organization is, "clean", "pure", "upright","righteous", a "spiritual paradise" not plagued by the same problems as the other religions because "this is the ONLY True Religion".So, then, saying that JWs have the same problems, attitudes, vices,etc. as everyone else not only proves the Org is not only not superior but very much a "part of the world" and hyprocritically point the finger at everyone else while they themselves indulge in the same behavior.You can't have it both ways.Either you recommend "the truth" by how you live your life 24 hours a day or you don't.They disfellowship others to create a facade that they don't tolerate such things while they themselves indulge in these very same "vices" !

Knocking on doors proclaiming God's kingdom, and the Witness spiritual paradise way of life as the only real one acceptable to god while living contrary to this, is living a lie.The Org even takes it so far as to say that all ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses have ANY basis for a real hope of surving this system of things and thusly recommend their way of life to all onlookers.Witnesses are collectively the biggest drinkers I have ever met.It's obvious they're trying to deal with their anxiety and dissonance in this way but it still doesn't change the fact that they are trying to dull the pain from "the truth" while trying to recruit others into this way of life.How screwed up is that ! Misery loves company.

I remember one time right after the Book Study when they broke out the booze to make frozen mixed drinks and all that good stuff.I bet the "only true god" is so proud of this "holy nation".

25