Technically, I don't think they think there is a dif, i.e., DF and apostate mean the same thing, i.e., "a standing away from," or "turning away from" (the truth). As far as a point of no return, they would probably say if you have "sinned against the holy spirit"... and they might assume that talking against WTS/org is same as "sinning against holy spirit." Some consideration might be given as to the reason one was DF'd in the first place (weakness of the flesh, or speaking against the org, etc. etc.). I don't have any links, though. Maybe some elderoid types could answer this. ;)
abbagail
JoinedPosts by abbagail
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Apostate=Point of no return?
by happysunshine injust a quick question.
i was wondering what the difference between a df and and apostate is from a jw perspective.
is there ever a point of no return in the societies eyes?
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US Assemblies
by Satanus inif it has been posted, i apologise and ask to be directed there.
can someone furnish the dates and places of the district conventions in the us?
this would be useful for a few who are wrestling w the wt.
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abbagail
What memories this thread brings up. The very first assembly of any kind I ever attended was a Circuit Assembly in Grand Junction, CO (1979). Seems the "apostates" had taken all of the front row seats, and I guess nobody realized it, until midway thru the talk, they all rushed the stage and the speaker, hollering and shouting loudly. What total chaos! Of course, as soon as it was realized what was happening, a large number of brothers rushed upon the disrupters, carting them out of the auditorium. As a newbie at the time, I was aghast. It was explained to me by the JWs I were with, that these were former-JWs-now-apostate, etc. I didn't understand then, nor do I now see the point. I agree with everybody who said it looks dumb and is a waste of time. Has one single "convert" ever been made this way?
Saw such things in later years, too, outside of the West Palm Beach auditorium, with the picket signs, marching along the sidewalks, shouting, etc. Why, we even had "apostates" right inside the KHall during regular meetings stand up and start hollering. Talk about waking you right up, if you were dozing thru the Watchtower study! ;) That happened several times that I recall. And you've never seen the bros move sooooooo fast, either, when something like that occurs. If I recall correctly, at least in my own former KH, they started locking the doors once the meetings began, since persons would walk in off the street during a meeting and begin causing a rucus.
Overall, I feel it's a sad situation, for those "in" and those "out." If all of those, including myself, who are "out," were not still somehow emotionally entwined with the JW situation, there wouldn't be forums like this.
Ho Hum. What can I say...
Edited by - GRITS on 18 June 2002 5:32:36
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Found this JW news page...
by Valis indidn't know if any of you had seen this site, butn they have some jw obits and some articles i haven't seen posted before, plus it looks as if it gets an update semi-regularly.
http://www.weeuniverse.com/religionjehovahs.html.
sincerely.
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abbagail
Thanks District Overbeer (funny name): I'd never seen that link before, and there were several articles that had never come across my path. Interesting.
GRITS
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What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?
by blacksheep inas a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!
recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!
), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.
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abbagail
WTS India Letters: (Figured it out, playing with the options at the bottom, sorry!)
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What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?
by blacksheep inas a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!
recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!
), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.
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abbagail
OK. I don't know what's happening, but twice I have tried to post the longer (more correct) link, and then nothing shows up in the actual post. Help! I'll try again. I am posting the link three times-in-a-row below. Is it showing up? /grits (PS: Granted, the link/URL is longer than one line. Is that what the problem is? I cut it in half to see if that will work, but you'll have to paste it in your browser to re-connect it.)
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What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?
by blacksheep inas a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!
recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!
), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.
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abbagail
Ooops, that other link didn't work. Use this one for the India WTS Letters:
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What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?
by blacksheep inas a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!
recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!
), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.
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abbagail
My thanks, too, to all posting their insights and knowledge on this topic. Fascinating, as always.
In reply to a similar topic at the other forum, the moderator posted this link, copies of WTS letters (India Branch) from the year 2000. It pertains to this $$ subject, downsizing, etc. If you haven't seen it before, it's worth taking a peek:
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Newsweek Is Covering WT Sex Abuse Scandal
by abbagail innot sure why the entire post did not print/show up????
newsweek's webpage: <[url] http://www.msnbc.com/news/nw-front_front.asp> .
the above newsweek home page had this info near the bottom: .
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abbagail
Ya'll Welcome Now, ya hear? (using exaggerated Southern accent). ;) Well, it pays to be a Night Owl... when late-breaking news flies hot off the press, it's great to be able to pass it around while most are still sawing logs.
The story is not in the Top 10, and the Supreme Court story holds the #10 spot at MSNBC (I just checked again).
Thanks for the Newsweek reporter's name & addy, hawkaw (what does your name mean, btw?) I wrote Newsweek from their online comment form early this morn'; shoulda kept a copy of what I wrote.
Snap... I was quickly looking at your name to pull out an acronym or abbreviation for it. When that didn't work, I began to r-e-a-d i-t s-l-o-w-l-y to figure out what it says, and then it hit me! Snap Out Of It! Crack me up! Big Time chuckle. The names you folks come up with tickle me silly.
Have a good one,
GRITS
(Girl Raised In The South)PS: I almost forgot what I wanted to say to Snap: Yes, that word "WHEN" jumped out at me like a bolt of lightning. I know JR has said these things, but when those few comments are condensed, as in the article, it really really REALLY looks bad for them.
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What's the deal with not needing Bethelites?
by blacksheep inas a disclaimer, i am an ex-jw (da'd) for about 15+ years, so i really haven't kept up on what's going on in bethel (come to think of it i wasn't really interested in it when i was a jw!
recently, however, one of my relatives (current jw) commented that, although my nephew had applied to bethel (oh what a privilege!
), he was basically told he wasn't needed at this time because they aren't "mailing out the publications" there like they used to.
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abbagail
Glad everyone jumped on this. Very very interesting thoughts and comments. The one post about how we were always taught Jah is blessing us/org so we could be self-sufficient (even having their own orange groves in Florida so the NY bethelites could have fresh fruit in the winter, etc.), but then to hear that we/WTS are no longer self-sufficient... so Jah must've taken his blessing away... Hmmm... I just wonder if I was still a JW sitting in the KH, what in the world would I be thinking about all of these backsliding developments. The KH's must be a hot-bed of speculation and chatter among the "friends" about these endless changes going on. It seems it's just one new thing after another.
BTW, that cost list re: publication of the mags... I saw it about a week ago via Freeminds (if it's the same one you're thinking of), under the section called "Bethelite Papers" or something like that. And under that were sections about "How the WTS pays for the mags" (or similar wording).
GRITS
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Were you ashamed of being a witness?
by sleepy inwere you ashamed of being a witness?.
how did you feel about identifing yourself as a jehovahs witness to others?.
i often used to hide it because of the stigma attacthed to it.. was anyone actually proud to be one?
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abbagail
From reading Page 1 of this thread, I thought I was going to be the only OddBall, until top of page 2, Rodbar, Dismembered, and Salud all said they were never embarrassed. Neither was I. Was wracking my brain to try and remember one instance where I felt embarrassed (11 years as a JW), and cannot think of one. I liked being a JW. As HomebutHiding said, it gave purpose to life, etc.
Funny story about Rodbar finally smacking the baptists in the john. :)
I think any kid in school who feels different is gonna hate whatever it is that makes 'em feel different. As a Catholic kid, we had to catch the Catholic school bus to go to school, so we huddled on one side of the corner every single morning in our catholic UNIFORMS (try coping with that for seven long years!), while the public school kids were across the street on the other corner. Talk about EMBARRASSED and hating every second of it, every day at the bus stop, swearing to myself that No Way was I going to Catholic HIGH SCHOOL, TOO! I was desperate to be just like the "regular public school kids." So when it was time to go to 9th grade (either public junior high or Catholic High School), well, public school here I come!
It must have felt similar for JW kids, if not worse.
Good topic for a thread, though. Had never thought much about it. Thanks!
GRITS