abbagail

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Posts by abbagail

• 
  159

  The Watchtower has a deal with the Navy.

  by avengers in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  well, here's another nail for the coffin: my son requested this info to show his jw sister.

  washington, d.c. 20549.

  form 10-ksb.

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  abbagail

  Thanks ErieGuy for laying out the facts so clearly.

  I wondered if it was the prior story or something brand new.

  And whether the story is worth its weight in gold or not... only the GB's hairdressers know for sure...

  ;)

  GRITS
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  13

  BBC LIVE Email ForumStarts In 30 Minutes!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's the addy, go to forum section pronto!

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/.

  englishman.

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  abbagail

  Oh yea... I remembered a few more things from the show this morning (morning my time, that is):

  First, the subject came up as to whether there really was a database of 23,720 names, so the lady reporter from Panorama (I gotta get her name right -- her initials are PB), well PB spoke right up and clear as a bell stated without hesitation something like this: "The Bethel did NOT DENY they had a database, so we KNOW they have one."

  Then the host asked Bill, "Why don't the police just go raid the WTS and get the database and those names? Is that illegal in your country?" So Bill explained that yes, they, as a religion, were protected under the Constitution.

  At another moment, they asked Bill "Why are you doing this?" or something like that, so he explained (again) that he has no beef whatsoever with the WTS about beliefs or doctrines, but ONLY the POLICY re: pedophiles, since he knows of a pedophile, RIGHT NOW, in his area who is a member in good standing who is out going door to door.

  Bill also brought up about how the WTS says they are "monitoring" all the people whose names are on their database/pedophiles. So Bill asked, HOW can they MONITOR THEM? They let them go door to door with other JWs who have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that they are working in the field with a pedophile, so HOW can that JW be "monitoring" the perv??? -- Go getum Bill! That was good!

  Then the host asked a question, reading from an email, of a father who has 2 daughters and he wants to know how he would be able to find out if there were any pervs in their congregation, so the host asked Bill, "How would this father get that info? If he asked would they tell him?" Bill said, of course, that he can always go to the elders and ask, but that NOBODY, NONE of the JW publishers are privy to that info of who is/isn't a pedophile, so Bill doubts seriously the father would be able to get the information. Then Bill said that at the SL website there is the Pinpoint a Pedophile section, and from that he has been provided names of many many around the globe, and that the father could always contact SL and Bill could look at his list to see if he is aware of any particular pervs in that particular congregation.

  Later/GRITS
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  13

  BBC LIVE Email ForumStarts In 30 Minutes!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's the addy, go to forum section pronto!

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/.

  englishman.

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  abbagail

  I got the last 15 minutes of it! It was FANTASTIC! The only problem for me is they talk so fast, and the English accents are hard to understand. I had my ear right up to my laptop speaker. ;) Real Player works, though admittedly, it was hard for me to figure it out last night, but finally got it working. I wish I could remember all they said. It was toooo good, and the lady reporter, man, she is ONE TOUGH CHICK! She doesn't take any bull from anybody, and is very straightforward.

  What Englishman said, how they asked if these were all "old" cases, Bill said, No Way, that he had 12 new cases since the show aired last night. (Man, he must have been up all night. I bet he's pooped!)

  I'm thinking we will be able to watch it again, for up to seven days. Seems like I read somewhere that the Panorama program you could view it up to seven days after broadcast. So it should probably be the same with this program.

  This is the correct link:
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/live_forums/newsid_2124000/2124808.stm

  and click on the "56k" link on that page, and it will download the now4.ram (document) which when you click on that, it opens up Real Player if you have it already installed/downloaded on your computer.

  And after you watch it, don't forget to submit a comment to the BBC:
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_855000/855727.stm#form

  BECAUSE the host of the show (the gentleman) asked Bill if he was aware or had had the time to read all of the comments at the forum by the current-JWs who were bashing the show, bashing Bill, bashing the Panorama's credibility, etc. etc. Then Bill answered that JWs are known to engage in writing campaigns wherein they will all email each other and then everyone will jump on (whatever event) EN MASSE. Toooo good! Because that is so true. I remember hearing the talks in the service meetings for us to write letters and I remember writing some myself (long before the internet/email), whenever there was trouble with the governments down in South America, back in the 80's. I can't remember the specifics.

  Anyway, it was a great show! I'm going to see if I can watch it again.

  Later/GRITS
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  8

  PROOF 2 WITNESS RULE IS NOT NEEDED

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the wt.

  of 10-1-77 asks if an unbelieving husband admitted that he had another woman, is his admission sufficient ground for a scriptural divorce.the response was"though for the sake of his reputation he might not be willing to own up to it in a court of law or before other persons.what can the wife do?

  since she is part of the clean christian congregation, she should realize the importance of handling the matter properly.

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  abbagail

  LadyLee... crack me up!

  YoursChelbie... I like your reasoning re: the Law of Moses/Deut. 19:15... It makes sense to me, but did you see in the letter read to the congs Sunday:

  Later, this requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matthew 18:16)

  Of course I think they have it warped, because when you apply the Matt. scriptures to child molesting it makes no sense whatsoever. Can you see Jesus applying his words at Matthew to a child who might have come to him about being molested? It smacks of absurdity.
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32092&page=2&site=3#423556

  And, Amazing... love your lightning-speed fingers on that keyboard... and leave it to your analytical brain (which I do love and admire) to spoil the fun of minimus' seemingly right-on argument from the WT article. :)

  GRITS
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  3

  Additional BBC Panaroma Recording

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovah's witnesses and child abuse .

  the jehovahs witnesses are the latest in a succession of religious groups to come under attack for the way they have responded to allegations of child sex abuse within their ranks.

  a panorama investigation to be shown on bbc1 tonight (sunday) reveals that a number of legal actions against the organisation are underway in america, but the problem is not confined to that country.

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  abbagail

  AGREE, BTTT!!! This was an EXCELLENT audio piece, with comments/info that was not in the Panorama broadcast. Everyone should listen to this audio report if they haven't already! It was Gooooooood!

  GRITS
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  3

  "Jehovah's Paedophiles" BBC FRONT PAGE!

  by expatbrit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  wow!

  check the fron page of the bbc website!

  front page!

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  abbagail

  Expatbrit:

  Yeah, WOWOWOW. When you put it THAT way...

  The deaf-blind-dumb-dubs are posting on Silent Lambs how horrible, sensationalized, WT-haters we all are... It's enough to make you want to pull your hair out.

  GRITS
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  2

  A Message To Brooklyn

  by musicnonstop in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the wake of 'panorama', and in light of the mileage the wt has had out of the catholic church over the years, i flicked through the nwt i still have and found a little passage in romans (2v1-5,13) which seems deliciously appropriate (i'm quoting the rav here, as i'm in a public library and don't have my nwt with me): .

  "(1)therefore you are inexcusable, o man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge do the same things.

  (2) but we know that the judgment of god is according to truth against those who practise such things.

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  abbagail

  Hey thanks musicnonstop.... That scripture sends chills down my spine!

  Asta La Veeeesta - funny! :)

  GRITS
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  5

  WT on the Ropes, UK letter

  by belbab in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  wt on the ropes.

  today, sunday, july 14 has been a very eventful day here on the board.

  we have seen the letter posted that was read out at kingdom halls in britain.

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  abbagail

  Sobering thought, Little Toe... that's upsetting to think about, but likely happens more often than not.

  And for belbab, thanks for the call to action. I hope what you write is true, that the WTBTS will want to distance itself from the pedophiles, and drop them like hot-cakes when push comes to shove. But remember the Panorama show, the teenage boy who came forward:

  In Birmingham as in New Hampshire, the elders supported the accused. Even after Patti was convicted and sentenced to five years in jail, they didnt waver. At the next meeting in the Kingdom Hall the elders made sure the congregation knew where they stood.

  Simon Brady (the teenage boy): There was an announcement given, saying as a body of elders, thats including every elder in Rubery, we feel as a body of elders basically this man is innocent, we believe hes innocent and the Bethel have informed us that they will do everything in their power to help this man.

  You also wrote:

  What is required? ... Legal authorities must be petitioned to obtain the contents of these files. If legal revelation is required, the WT then must release the files as the words above indicate.

  This could very well happen at some point in the future if the media keeps up the exposure, as well as the individuals who have been harmed. The other day NY Times had an article about the CC's cases being taken to grand juries all over the country. Seems things are stepping up in that regard, and one would likely conclude the WT could be next. Let's hope so!

  Role of Bishops Is Now a Focus of Grand Juries . . . Prosecutors across the nation have taken investigations of clerical sexual abuse before more than a dozen grand juries in recent weeks, stepping up their inquiries into whether Roman Catholic bishops endangered children by ignoring the crimes, prosecutors and church officials said. . . . District attorneys from Phoenix to St. Louis to Long Island are using the secret grand juries to obtain subpoenas for personnel records and other records from Catholic dioceses and to compel the testimony of bishops and priests.

  (rest of story online) . . . . . Today's NY Times . . . . . Cut and paste this link for it to work . . . . http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/12/national/12CHUR.html?todaysheadlines

  GRITS
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  24

  Transcript of the UK letter

  by dmouse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to the meeting this morning and taped the reading of the letter, and transcribed it when i got home.

  there are a few alterations to the u.s. letter posted by silent lambs.

  i have highlighted these changes.. .

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  abbagail

  Well, I don't know about anyone else, but seeing it in print "in Jesus Day" really shows me how utterly ridiculous The Matthew 18:16 Rule is in regards to child abuse. Like dungbeetle pointed out: "The two-witness rule is for the PROCEEDINGS , not the CRIME." Good point.

  GRITS
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  24

  Transcript of the UK letter

  by dmouse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to the meeting this morning and taped the reading of the letter, and transcribed it when i got home.

  there are a few alterations to the u.s. letter posted by silent lambs.

  i have highlighted these changes.. .

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  abbagail

  Before I saw this thread and the contents of the UK letter, I had posted a shorter version of this at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32147&page=1&site=3#423526
  but this is the e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d version. I needed to play out this scenario just to see how "realistic" it would look in print. GRITS
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  The UK WT letter said:

  Later, this requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matthew 18:16)

  The little girl sees Jesus sitting over on the rock, in among the crowd...

  She saw him here last week.
  She wanted to get to him then, but she lost her nerve.

  "Shall I try today to reach him?" she wonders to herself. (She'd been thinking about it all week, trying to work up the courage...)

  Before she realizes it, she is walking towards Jesus sitting on the rock.

  Her pedophile uncle, and disciple of Jesus, tries to stop her in her tracks...

  Jesus rebuked the man saying, "Let the little child come to me, and do not try to stop her...:"

  So the little girl makes it up to Jesus' lap and he puts his arms around her and hugs her. She feels safe now. She thinks she has enough courage. It's now or never. So she leans up and whispers in Jesus' ear that her uncle, who brought her there, has been touching her in ways that he should not.

  Jesus gets a perplexed look all over his face, and sets her back down, and pointing to the uncle says: "Come with me over here behind this tree."

  The uncle follows Jesus to the tree, but he's not the least bit worried. He knows Jesus would NEVER go against Deut. 19:15...

  Jesus looks the uncle straight in the eye and asks him, "Did you do as this child says?"
  The uncle exclaims, "NO LORD! I would NEVER do any such thing. The girl is making up fantasies."

  Jesus says, "Okay then Brother. Good enough. That's all I needed to know. Continue following me as my disciple..."

  Jesus goes back to the little girl, kneels down to her level, and says, "I'm sorry child, but because there is no one else to back up what you say, I cannot believe you, nor can I do anything about what you have told me. I cannot get myself in a jam without another witness to what you described. However, I do hope you will come and see me again, because you KNOW I love you and care about you. Look, here's your uncle now... run along so your uncle can take you home, and be a good little girl and don't ever tell anyone else what you told me... ESPECIALLY don't tell any of the Roman soldiers... because you know how they hate me and my disciples already, and you wouldn't want to make any trouble for us, now would you?"

  The little girl is trembling, frozen on the spot, she cannot even speak a word as one last tear trickles down her cheek... all hope has vanished, and the look of death covers her face like a veil...

  Jesus calls his disciples to him and they travel along the road a few miles where another crowd has assembled. He rests himself on a hillside and begins to teach the crowd:

  "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established."

  And at that moment the uncle, hiding the wicked smirk on his face, bent down and kissed Jesus' feet, mouthing, "Praise You Lord, Praise You... Your words are sayings of everylasting life..."