cofty,
You: "Tele you are making the assumption that life began with protein molecules."
Wrong again. I assume no such thing.
telemetry11
JoinedPosts by telemetry11
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
Cofty, No matter; just curious.
Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?
My thanks to Cofty for this review of argument incorporating the cytochrome c family of proteins.
And for his unusually lucid-- “I didn't object to your assertion that there were 500 amino acids in the primordial soup".
What is the probability that one functional cytochrome c protein sequence emerged on its own from the primordial soup?
By the numbers:
100 amino acids in the cytochrome c sequence.
500 amino acids in the primordial soup.
So we have 500^100 or 10^269 possible sequences.
Now suppose there are 10^93 possible functional cytochrome c protein sequences.
There is 1 chance in 10^176 that a functional cytochrome c sequence emerged on its own from the primordial soup.
Of course one functional protein is not alive. But, if cytochrome c could have beat the odds, there it was ready to transport some electrons in the fundamental metabolic process of oxidative phosphorylation. Too bad the rest of the team didn’t make it.
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
Cofty,
You say: I didn't object to your assertion that there were "500 amino acids in the primordial soup".
Great! You have no objections to “500 amino acids in the primordial soup.”
So when you say, “Stop throwing around big numbers …”, to what numbers are you objecting?
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
RE your “Why wait for someone else to endorse the video?”
I have several comments on “the video”. D & C’s endorsement or failure to endorse helps narrow my options.
Since their failure is evident I returned to comment on the video. However …
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As if Cofty can’t produce the evidence to support his objection to “500 amino acids in the primordial soup”, you jump in with your own version of Cofty’s false opinion, “you are missing the point.”
The point: Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?
On point, which one is your best, your strongest argument-- “It doesn't matter …. peptides and proteins.” OR the video?
Pick your best and I’ll be there post-haste.
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
Cofty,
You: “You totally missed my point.”
Wrong again. Your point was neither “missed” nor “ignored.” Your point, “common ancestry“, is “totally” off-point; already noted.
Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?
The, “500 amino acids in the primordial soup.” did not originate as you declare.
In fact: “The majority of the 500 or so naturally occurring amino acids known today were discovered during the last 30 years,” --Wagner I, Musso H (November 1983). "New Naturally Occurring Amino Acids". Angew. Chem. Int. Ed. Engl. 22 (22): 816–828. doi:10.1002/anie.198308161.
Regardless, you claim: “What if we begin with self replication consisting of 4 bases? The [sic] we only have 20 amino acids and lots of redundancy in the sequences.”Show us the evidence that in Earth’s primordial oceans, after millions of years, there were no more than 20 different amino acids.
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BTW, Cool new avatar
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
cantleave,
If both Doltologist and Cofty endorse your video's points, I will comment. -
91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
My thanks to Cofty for this review of argument incorporating the cytochrome c family of proteins.
Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?
Modern biochemistry has shown that any “cooperative self-replicating system” (including any hypothetical protobiont) is (or would have been) operated by teams of molecular machines—PROTEINS. Proteins are the machines within living things that build the structures and carry out the chemical reactions necessary for life.
Cytochrome c, for example, is absolutely essential for life - organisms that lack it cannot live. The mitochondria of cells contain cytochrome c, where it transports electrons in the fundamental metabolic process of oxidative phosphorylation. Oxygen is used to generate energy in this process.
Only about a third of the 100 amino acids in cytochrome c are necessary to specify its function. Hubert Yockey has done a careful study in which he calculated that there are a minimum of 2.3 x 10^93 possible functional cytochrome c protein sequences
What is the probability that one functional cytochrome c protein sequence emerged on its own from the primordial soup?
By the numbers:
100 amino acids in the cytochrome c sequence.
500 amino acids in the primordial soup.
So we have 500^100 or 10^269 possible sequences.
Now suppose there are 10^93 possible functional cytochrome c protein sequences.
There is 1 chance in 10^176 that a functional cytochrome c sequence emerged on its own from the primordial soup.
Of course one functional protein is not alive. But, if cytochrome c could have beat the odds, there it was ready to transport some electrons in the fundamental metabolic process of oxidative phosphorylation. Too bad the rest of the team didn’t make it.
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Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?
What is the probability that the Big Bang eventually produced an environment suitable for life?
Next week.
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91
Proof - of what?
by Doltologist ina few weeks ago, these two jovies turned up on my doorstep.
being in a good mood that particular day, i told them that if they could prove that god existed, i'd become a jovie - and i meant every word.. they gave me two documents which they asked me read and told me that they'd be back in a week.
the first was called "was life created?
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telemetry11
Cofty,
You falsely assert that I ignored your “well researched post”. I thought it very interesting and certainly deserving of investigation and rational reply. Actually, the question that I just put to you was a first step toward that conversation.
But you--I am not going to answer whether I agree with a phrase plucked from somebody else's post unless I can discuss with them exactly what they meant.
Then you do not yet get the point, the focus, of this discussion. Doltologist wrote, “That's the point, if we have enough attempts to create life, eventually, we will succeed.” That is why I joined this chat. I wrote-- "Did life emerge on its own or not? What is the tested reality?" Let me know when you too get the point an we’ll start again. -
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'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality
by telemetry11 inthe court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.
"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".
"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.
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telemetry11
opusdei1972Religion must lose its protected status.
"If the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy. If any type of relationship deserves the protection of an enclave shored up with an evidentiary privilege, it is a consultive relationship dealing with this kind of choice." -
67
'Conti' Court decision secures Watchtower's Policy of confidentiality
by telemetry11 inthe court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.. decision reads:.
"the law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of kendrick to the elders here.".
"if the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy.
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telemetry11
The Court on the rule of confidentiality of penitential communications and evidentiary privilege--.
Decision reads:
"The law generally protects the confidentiality of communications with clergy like those of Kendrick to the elders here."
"If the person has a constitutional right to independence in making religious choices, the recognition of an evidentiary privilege is an apt means of protecting that autonomy. If any type of relationship deserves the protection of an enclave shored up with an evidentiary privilege, it is a consultive relationship dealing with this kind of choice."
"[T]he public policy to protect the confidentiality of penitential communications that underlies the privilege and reporting statutes militates strongly against imposition of the duty claimed here to inform congregations of such communications."
That California's Evidence Code expressly states the extent of the privilege is not an appropriate subject for legislation was also persuasive to the Conti Court, which cautioned other courts of intruding on this privilege.*
The Appellate Court wrote:
"Accordingly, we conclude that the elders of the Fremont Congregation had no duty to depart from Watchtower's policy of confidentiality ..."
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*IMO that sticks a pin in Zalkin's 13.5 million dollar balloon.