Ahhh hawk. I have buried you. You have completely ignored the context of the quote (which BTW was not their quote at all), and my evidence above, which provides the death-knell to your doctrine.
hector3000
JoinedPosts by hector3000
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
hawk: The doctrine is clear - be a NGO and associate/affiliate etc with the UN for any reason, a religion is then considered part of the great harlot that rides the beast.
Reply: No hawk, that is your misreading of it. To be an NGO AND think of it as God's kingdom on earth, and say prayers to it is looked down upon. But the WTS has viewed it favorably also:
"Moreover, nongovernmental and nonprofit organizations were established for the sole purpose of accident prevention. To name just two:' ABPA (Brazilian Association for Accident Prevention) and the National Safety Council in the United States. Some of the objectives of the latter are "to further, encourage, and promote methods and procedures leading to increased safety, protection, and health among employees and employers and among children." Basically, the same objectives are pursued by similar organizations world wide....This extensive concern on the part of the authorities illustrates how big the problem has become and how much pain, sorrow and damage could be avoided if all of us showed genuine interest in our own welfare and that of others." 11/22 77 Awake
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
hawk: Yeah no weasel room is right.
Reply: Isn't is amazing hawk how you come full circle.
You people complain of our faulty dependence on the Watchtower, yet you rely on exaclty the same thing for your own conclusions. -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Here is a great quiz:
Try to answer each in turn, and be honest!Would you be disfellowshipped as an apostate from the WT TODAY, if you believed and taught the Society's doctrines of 1920? (or 1879, or 1974) (after the inspection)
YES______ NO______Reply: Yes, and you should be df'ed. 1974?? We are progressive, not regressive. If we all truly were regressive, the entire western world would still be Catholic.
Would a JW of 1920 have been disfellowshipped if he then believed and taught present-day WT doctrines?
YES______ NO______Reply: Biblically, anyone factious should be removed (though finding examples of the above might be harder to prove. A waiting attitude is an exemplary Christian trait.
Would a JW living in 1913 have been disfellowshipped from the WT if he believed and taught that 1914 was NOT going to be the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty" or Armagedon as the Society was then saying (StinScrip, VolII, The Time Is At Hand, 1908 ed. pg 101, 171 & 245)?
YES______ NO______Reply: Who cares?
Is it right to be disfellowshipped and treated as an apostate for believing and teaching the TRUTH?
YES______ NO______Reply: YES! In Acts 16:17 we have the following:
"She followed Paul and us, crying, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation." And this she did for many days. But Paul was annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I charge you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." And it came out that very hour." RSV
This demon was expelled, even though he told the truth. The SOURCE of truth was more important.Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT "in the truth" according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES______ NO______Reply: See Scripture above. The core doctrines were correct, were they not?
Have thousands of JWs died believing and teaching WT "errors", according to present-day WT teachings?
YES______ NO______Reply: No!
Did you know that CT Russell taught the resurrected Jesus is "Almighty" based on his conclusion of Matt 28:18 (The Finished Mystery pg 15)?
YES______ NO______Jesus is not God but God's representative and, as such, so completely and totally acts on God's behalf that he stands in God's stead before the world. The Gospel clearly states that God and Jesus are not to be understood as identical persons. as in 14:28, "The Father is greater than I."
According to Matt 28:18, is it the Father or the Son who as "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
FATHER______ SON______Reply: ""All authority in heaven and on earth has been GIVEN to me." RSV
Something GIVEN indicates a time when you did not have it.As a JW are you allowed to worship the one with "ALL authority" in HEAVEN and on earth?
YES______ NO______Reply: YES. I will proskuneo him.
What is more important? Loyalty the the Truth or loyalty to the TruthTM?
Can you distinguish between the Two?
YES______ NO______Reply: Barclay writes that there is truth in the statement that we cannot have God for our Father if we do not have the Church for our Mother. (see The Gospel of Mark-Daily Bible Series, p. 331)
If the light keeps getting brighter on the ever expanding knowledge of the truthTM then these questions must be asked as well as
Since the WT's doctrines and practices are continually changing, would you say that thousands of JWs in the past were NOT in the truthTM according to present-day WT teachings, as they confessed?
YES_____ NO______Reply: See above
Are you sure the same thing won't happen to YOU?
YES_____ NO______Reply: What core doctrines have changed in the recent past?
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Dutchie: "Just one more thing. Knowledge can increase, but truth does not change! There is a difference Hector."
Reply: Ahh, but it does to humans, and it always should. We impewrfect humans are not vessels of absolute truth, the best we can strive for are vessels of honor (2 Tim 2:20)
"Truth" changed for you, did it not? Only God knows absolute truth.
Church members in previous centuries had their blood sucked out by leaches, but increased knowledge bought new truths.
All protestant churches are the result of a change of "truth".
When some of the first Christians came to the New World on the Speedwell (joining the Mayflower), they were given this
memorable charge:
"If God reveals anything to you by any other instrument of His, be ready to recieve it as you were to recieve any *truth* by my ministry, for I am verily persuaded that the Lord hath *more truth* yet to break forth out of His holy Word. For my part, I cannot sufficiently bewail the condition of those reformed Churches which are come to a period in religion, and will go, at present, no further than the instruments of their reformation. The Lutherans cannot be drawn to go beyond what Luther saw; whatever part of His will our God has revealed in Calvin, they
will rather die than embrace it; and the Calvinists, you see, stick fast where they were left by that great man of God, who saw yet not all things. This is a mystery much to be lamented, for thought they were burning and shining lights in their times, yet they penetrated not into the whole counsel of God; but were they now living, would be as willing to embrace further light as that which they first recieved, for it is not possible the Christian world should
come so lately out of such thick anti-Christian and that perfection of knowledge should break forth at once."
John Robinson, 1620 A.D. as quoted in the Pilgrim Church, by E.H. Broadbent, p.257
I think Jehovah's Witnesses have progressive, while many beliefs have remained stagnant. But at the same time, we have "penetrated not into the whole counsel of God" yet.
The problem with everyone here is that they expect perfection where there never was any in the first place:
"We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,-in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth. . . . It is our duty to "prove all things."-by the unerring Word,-"and hold fast to that which is good."" -- "The Ten Virgins," Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, October 1879, reprint, 38.
I say BRAVO to that!You are simply confusing Truth with absolute knowledge. Satan is smarter than the rest of us, and knows more about the medical system than your accusations, yet "the truth is not in him" (Jn 8:44). Truth liberates us from sin (John 8:32) not ignorance.
http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Dutchie:Talk about making money off the bible! Who do you know that publishes so many bible based books every year. Every month it seems there is a new publication, a new brochure, a new truth. If the "truth" is non changing, an absolute, the watchtower certainly spends a lot of time publishing new books to cover the latest "truth"!
Reply:Dutch, there is a big difference between publishing a book that you will give away, and Tyndale House and Zondervan that will SELL millions and get rich. I have never sold a book or bible in the last 20 years that I know of, but I have given many away.
All publishing companies publish the latest books, newer books, all the time. "Knowledge will increase" in the time of the end, and we accept correction to accomodate this increase.
However, on the other hand, we have recently seen the release of the English Standard Version, Holman Christian Standard Bible, International English Bible, International Standard Version, Todays International Version, etc., which have offered really nothing new, except propping a billion dollar bible mill industry.You know what is really SAD? The way you all use the word "SAD." This says alot about you.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
What is "but pure, unadulterated propaganda" is relative to the person making the statement, isn't it? For instance, I think this web-site is "but pure, unadulterated propaganda" except that I have a better leg to stand on. For instance I can admit to making mistakes, you can not. I don't have to resort to mis-truths, like the following statement by you:
"The real religion of the watchtower is to sell books and magazines. Thus the hour quota, the magazine quota, etc."
We don't sell publications, and we haven't for quite some time. We give Bibles and books away, free of charge. Contrast that with Zondervan and other Bible publishers who recognize the Bible as a multi-million dollar industry...and that is why we have a newer Protestant Bible just about every year.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Tom, I believe I have already replied to that. Pay attention.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Well Hawk, let us break this down for you:
"A recent book gives an idea when it states: "All major world religions are accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations. For example, No less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN."
Reply: How many JW organizations ar presently NGO's?
"Several of the world's religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979."
Reply: How many visit have we made to the Gen. Assembly?
"Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths."
Reply: How many JW's "have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations?"
Have we declared the UN "the chief temporal hope" for humanity? W76
Nope! -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
And all of that was covered even before that, as stated, despite the fact that you wish to ignore it:
"the "authority" can serve for good, as it was intended; and we have a right to take advantage of it for good if we remain law-abiding persons. Do we not appeal to the authorities of the land for them to render us some good in cases where our rights are being violated by enemies? In many such cases they have been ministers for our good, have they not? Why should we appeal to them at all if they were not appointed to minister good to us or if no good was possible to issue from them? Even in behalf of the preaching of God's kingdom, which in many cases some officials have persecuted, Jehovah's witnesses have appealed to the "authority" for the right handling of the situation adversely affecting us. Why should we do this if the "authority" was not really and essentially appointed to minister good things and benefits to all the people, to all who are lower than the "superior authorities" or "higher powers"?" W62, 711