Let me ask you. From the Bible...who is your leader?
hector3000
JoinedPosts by hector3000
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
As I had said earlier, which you all ignore, is that I fall under the umbrella of the new covenant.
You people on this board, do not. You don't have any mediator, and you are without hope. Oh, I know you think you do, but that does not make it so.
God made a covenant with Noah, but all share in it.
God made a covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob Ex 2:24, but all share in it.
They were mediators of their respective covenants.
God made a covenant with Moses also, but not all Israel benefited.
Moses was the mediator of the old covenant, yet only the high priests were able into the Holy of the Holies, to stand before the person of God for us.
What are the elect called? Priests!
"He made them a kingdom of priests for our God; and they will rule over the earth." Rev 5:10
"and has made us a kingdom of priests for His God and Father." C.B. Williams NT -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Busted?!
Everything you quoted complements everything I have said. You only highlighted the parts you wanted to concentrate on. I find this is a big problem with this board. You all are selective in your findings. -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
According to J.H. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, MESITHS means, "one
who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace
and friendship, OR TO FORM A COMPACT, or FOR RATIFYING A COVENANT...
[also denotes an] arbitrator, (Vulg. [and A.V. mediator).
The Bible uses the word "mediator" in connection
with covenants only. The New Testament discuss two
primary covenants which concern Christians. One is the new covenant,
and the other is the covenant for a kingdom.
"For there is one God, and one mediator [MESITHS] between God and
men, the man Christ Jesus" (KJV).
In 1 Tim. 2:5, Paul seems to say that Jesus is the MESITHS for all Christians. Is this the case? Some have pointed out that Paul did not say that Jesus is a mediator of certain men. He also did not say that
Jesus was a mediator for all men either. Which argument of silence
will we therefore use? Is Jesus the mediator for all Christians or
for some Christians? In view of the definition of MESITHS, and in
view of the manner in which the Bible uses the word "mediator," we
must conclude that Paul was saying that Jesus is the mediator for all
persons in the new covenant. Back in the first century, when the book
of 1 Tim. was written, there was only the heavenly hope. -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Mediator:
Heb.9
[15] "Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant." RSVI fall under the unbrella of that new covenant, though I may not be of the firstfruits. Jesus is my mediator. As the Insight Book says under Mediator:
These not in the new covenant also appreciate that "there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Ac 4:12) They, too, look to Jesus Christ as their great heavenly High Priest, through whom they can approach God and through whose ministration they can get forgiveness of sin. (Heb 4:14-16) Revelation 21:22-24 points out that 'the nations will walk in the light of New Jerusalem,' where Jehovah God is the light and the Lamb Jesus Christ is the lamp.
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Well hawk, I am big enough to let you have the last word. You complain that only JW's think they are right, yet you will not allow any other opinion to counter yours. Only YOU are right, aren't you? Admittedly, the WTS should have used more foresight in some of their decision, but having access to public information is a far cry from the devotional admiration set forth by religious groups in the WT articles you esteem so greatly.Your need to believe otherwise belies your psychological dependence on this. After, this whole UN thing is yourt schtick, isn't it. This is how you have chosen to define yourself.
You all speaking of "healing", yet you will not allow the JW's to make corrective measuresn themselves. For you it is a courage to heal, for us it is deemed a sign of God's disapproval. How does that look if we turn things around?Guess what folks, we are going to continue to make mistakes, we leave claims of infallibility for the pope. All in all, we are going to continue to shine better than other faiths, in all areas.
Part 2:
Ok lets go.
I am a potential convert you know.Reply: No you're not, you wouldn't be here otherwise.
I want to know what YOU believe.
I have asked you many questions but you have ignored every one.
Why do all JWs I have ever asked a question of always run away?
(same questions too)
Are you strong enough in the faith to stand up to tough questions?
Are you humble enough to accept a fact when it is a fact?
Are you married to the truth[tm] instead of the TRUTH?Reply: Big build up...and then *nothing.* Or was that last one THE question.
Sir, whatever I believe can be supported by the Bible. That's is what it comes down to, does it not? -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
DBeetle: do more harm to persons already suffering; to take sheep already skinned and thrown about and beat them some more....no empathy, no healing words. Just MORE judgement and MORE emotional BATTERING....this doctrinal debate around instead of healing and kindness.
Reply: You hawkites sound wimpy to me. For a minute I thought I was part of a woman's support group. C'mon...a real person is not defined by his misery. It is how you handle the bad stuff that determines what sort of person you are, crumbling under it only magnifies how weak you are. Are you going to fight the fine fight of the faith, or run away in surrender?
Oh, and Oprah is on at 5:00. -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
Ahh Hawk...you still don't get it. W76:
"The Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches, with a membership of over 250 churches, have repeatedly declared the United Nations to be “the chief temporal hope for world peace.”"Have JW's done this? No!
" The Holy See maintains a permanent observer at the UN and contributes financial as well as moral support to many of its economic, social, scientific, cultural, and humanitarian programs."
Have JW's done this? No!
"Sixteen Catholic international organizations contribute formally to the work of ECOSOC and various Specialized Agencies through the medium of consultative status with these bodies, and Catholic groups and individuals in various countries contribute to the formation of national policy and action with regard to the UN.”-Vol. 14, p. 423."
Have JW's done this? No!
From W91:
"A recent book gives an idea when it states: “No less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN. Several of the world’s religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979. Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths.”"Have JW's done this? No!
Talk about making mountains out of library cards.
That is pretty much all I have to say on this tired topic. -
185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
dutch: As you are no doubt aware, it has only been in these later years that the watchtower stopped teaching that its writings were divinely inspired by Jehovah, just as the bible was.
Reply: Nope, those quotes I gave you are over a century old.
dutch: I digress. If the watchtower were truly Jehovah's organization there surely would be consistency in its teachings. Jehovah is a god of order, not disorder.
Reply: Maybe this is true for the divinely inspired 1st century church, but not for those who know "by faith, not by sight." You will actually find JW are more consistent than other churches in this matter, but we are not perfect. I got the following from Rob Bowman:
"The latest Barna and Gallup research reveals the shocking but true
statistics of how the church is being molded by or postmodern culture rather
than vice-versa. For example 1996-1997 research reveals the following:
84% of Americans claim to be "Christian." (a significant drop from 90% in
1995-1996) and 40% of Americans claim to be "born again," that is to have
confessed their sins and accepted Jesus Christ and Lord and Savior.67% of the general population reject belief in absolute truth and also
believe that all religions will equally get one to heaven if one is faithful
(universalism). As alarming as this is, even more so is that 53% of "born
again" Christians agree with this and reject the belief in absolute truth
while 41% of the "born again population embrace the belief of universalism!The belief that a person qualifies for heaven if they are good, breaks down
denominationally as follows:Roman Catholics, 82%; Methodist, Episcopalians, Lutherans and Presbyterians
range from 52-59%; Baptist 38%; Assemblies of God 22%.70% of Americans are members of a church, temple, or synagogue, however,
only 31% attend weekly. It gets worse. Only 17% attend Sunday School weekly
(1996), down from 23% in 1991.58% of Americans believe that the Bible is totally accurate, 32% of the
"born again" Christian reject the infallibility of the Bible.20% of Americans identify themselves as New Age practitioners, 53% believe
in ESP, 24% have practiced Transcendental Meditation, 34% believe in a New
Age form of God, 36% read their horoscopes regularly and 26% believe that
astrology is scientifically accurate (a recent Life Magazine poll indicated
48% believe that astrology is probably or definitely valid). Belief in
reincarnation grew from 25% in 1992 to an astonishing 30% in 1996.Especially troubling is of the "born again" population: 28% believe that
Jesus sinned and didn’t rise from the dead, 47% say Satan is not living
being-only a symbol for evil, and 43% deny the Person of the Holy Spirit
calling Him a symbol of Gods power!As you read the above incredible statistics remember that 84% of those
polled identified themselves as "Christians." Because of the high level of
consciousness toward religion or spirituality, with a low level of true
knowledge or understanding, our population continues to drift toward the
abyss. The old Biblical paradigm teaches that if you have the right teaching
you will experience God correctly, redemptively. The new paradigm is that if
you "experience" God, then you have the "right" teaching."dutchie: The Calvins and the Luterants never claimed to be the only true religion.
Reply: That's not entirely true also.
Dutch, don't get upset but I am going to use that word again: SAD
Sad that people let their lives be consumed by this "hate" just because some men tell you that they have the "truth" and then they publish numerous books and magazines to "prove" that this is the truth, when Jehovah's word the bible should be enough.dutch: Hector, I do not doubt that you gave away many magazines for free. However, don't forget that YOU paid for those magazines before you offered them to the householder. So the watchtower got their money
Reply: Did I?
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185
Typical JW Apologist
by TheStar inthis jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .
do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.
yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.
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hector3000
dutch: Surely the "generation" doctrine was core to the teachings of the witnesses.
Reply: The "generation" is a change of application of prophecy. not a change of doctrine. Part of our believe system states that we are to accept this kind of change, which you might say, is doctrine.
"We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,-in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth. . . . It is our duty to "prove all things."-by the unerring Word,-"and hold fast to that which is good."" -- "The Ten Virgins," Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's
Presence, October 1879, reprint, 38.dutch: Also, as you said we humans are not vessels of absolute truth. But surely you believe that Jehovah is a vessel of absolute truth and the watchtower is supposed to be Jehovah's earthly organization.
Reply: "Nevertheless, we are far from claiming any direct plenary inspiration. . . .
A careful examination of the subject leads us to the conclusion that the Lord providentially shapes our course so as to give us such personal experiences in life as will bring us to his word for comfort and instruction in righteousness; and thus he permits us to sympathize with the experiences and questionings of his people, and then present to them at appropriate times the lessons drawn from our own experiences, backed by the instructions and comfort of the Scriptures." -- "Interesting Letters," Zion's Watch Tower and
Herald of Christ's Presence, 15 July 1899, reprint, 2506.