Posts by passwordprotected

"As of today memetics is very far from fulfilling the requirements of a science. But I think it is just a matter of time before most of these problems have been resolved."

So at the moment there's no real science in memes, but the hope (faith?) is that one day there will be. Is that hope blind or is it based on a reality not yet beheld?

I also clicked through to a Q&A on memetics and the first question on the list is;

"Is the memes' theory a scientific theory? That is, could we say it is an analogical theory - meant to arrive to a biological law similar to the genetic one - or a metaphoric theory - using the gene-theory as just an explicatory aid?"

So it seems I'm not alone in wondering about the science of memes.

The answer to this question is fascinating;

"First of all, let us look at the question. In general metaphor is used as being broader than analogy. In this way analogy seems to refer to a law in biology, and metaphor to an explanatory aid. I think it can be used as you please. In my opinion biology does not have many laws, and certainly no laws in the way physics has them. But aside from this, my efforts are not to arrive at any laws of biology. Memes are in the realm from behavior to thought so it depends how broad you take biology to be.

I think that in the common sense of the word, they are not in the realm of biology, since genetics has little to do with memes, apart for the fact that the things memes are in, are biological, and that parts of these things (things are organisms) can be determined by genes to a large or small extent to take up memes without too much interference by intentions.

I think that the most positive way to look at it is that the memetic perspective, both the virus-metaphor, and the selective metaphor, can be an aid to understand otherwise difficult to understand phenomena. That would be more metaphoric I think. This does not mean that the theory about the structure of thought is very analogical to biological theory, especially the Darwinian theory. By the virus metaphor I mean the memetic perspective that Dawkins takes, where memes spread without much resistance.

By the selective perspective I mean the perspective where there is a focus on selection of memes; people can and do resist ideas, especially when those ideas prescribe them to behave in ways they don't like, or if those ideas tell them to agree on morally wrong ideas, in their judgement."

I don't claim to be intelligent enough to understand all of this. A couple of things do leap out at me, though. Firstly, memes are not in the realm of biology (which is one of the sciences, right?) but are actually a metaphor to explain an analogy. Am I on the right track?

Secondly, memes are a metaphor that has two dimensions, the virus-metaphor and the selective metaphor. Again, I'm not claiming to fully understand this, but that seems like a dichotomy.

So, if we are to believe memes, shouldn't they be scientifically proven and explained so that their function, purpose, definition and reality are absolutely conclusive. If there's any doubt as to what they are and how they work (even if they are just a metaphor, and it's amazing that a whole 'science' has sprung up around a metaphor) then surely the doubt would have to be filled in with faith. And faith is delusion, correct?

35

Have memes been scientifically proven?

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

i'm guessing lots of people here believe in memes.

my question, have they been scientifically proven?.

passwordprotected

I don't fully understand the science, so I'm really just looking for a yes or no answer from someone who does; have memes been scientifically proven?

76

eugenics anyone?

by ninja in

jw
friends

this is the brother of rahm emanuel not liking the spotlight being pointed at him.......we are in trouble folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho-0shfeggo.

passwordprotected

Is the belief that humans should be bred in a specific way or that certain social types should be prohibited from breeding a meme?

76

eugenics anyone?

by ninja in

jw
friends

this is the brother of rahm emanuel not liking the spotlight being pointed at him.......we are in trouble folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho-0shfeggo.

passwordprotected

The thing is, ninja, lots of people just cover their ears and cried "LALALALALALALAAAH!" when presented with stuff like this. Whenever they see their human Messiah's as not being quite as honest and transparent as they want them to be, whenever they discover that their human leaders teach and believe things that are actually quite nasty, they don't want to know.*

*Yes, this same logic is thrown at Christians too, I absolutely accept that.

87

Anyone listening to the confrence call?

by foolsparadise in

jw
friends

this guy got completely railroaded.

another person earns his freedom!

!.

passwordprotected

If a religious organisation is seen to be a money making racket, building great expansive buildings, buying up tax-free land, using volutary labour to further its means and offering very little back in terms of honest humanitarian value, then I say tax it and tax it higher than 60%.

If a small church is seen to be making itself available to the community for whatever needs the community may have, if it is financially supporting drug rehab, supporting single parents and other patently humanitarian deeds, then I say don't tax it; it's probably saving the tax payer money.

35

Have memes been scientifically proven?

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

i'm guessing lots of people here believe in memes.

my question, have they been scientifically proven?.

passwordprotected

Yes, but have they been scientifically proven, i.e. can they be replicated, manipulated, taken apart, put back together, quantified etc etc in a lab?

35

Have memes been scientifically proven?

by passwordprotected in

jw
friends

i'm guessing lots of people here believe in memes.

my question, have they been scientifically proven?.

passwordprotected

I'm guessing lots of people here believe in memes. My question, have they been scientifically proven?

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

passwordprotected

I'd have thought knowing 6 pedophiles would suggest you're hanging out in the wrong social circles. SIX??

226

Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.

by the research lady in

jw
friends

former elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.

our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.

passwordprotected

Reniaa, how are your kids? Remember when you posted this;

Hi I feel for you and understand, My first son was born severely disabled and is 10 years old he has multiple problems both physical and mental inc severe epilepsy, mental age that has leveled at 2 years old, I also have a 4 year old and a newborn baby and am a single mum, literatually my life is completely given over to my children.
Autism is a differcult decease to get diagnosed but once it is there is a lot of info out there about it, I will also say my niece had a learning delays and instead of talking created her own language that only she understood, very few understanble words about the same age as your son she got the help and within a couple of years she was talking normally now she 12 years old and perfectly ok, in fact is top in her school in maths and has been offered early exams, Sometimes for whatever reason kids are delayed on speech but this might just be a hiccup that just needs to be worked through. My sister used to have fun games trying to make speech fun, lots of rhyming and singing.to encourage her.

How do you find the time to post on here so prolifically? You're a testament to modern motherhood and should be applauded.

That being said, your JW judgements don't really wash.