Posts by passwordprotected

19

Reasoning From the Scriptures - are they working on an update?

by insearchoftruth in

a couple of questions on this, firstly, is there a pdf of this book available??

.

secondly, is anyone here aware of an update, due to the changing of the doctrine, this book is starting to become sprinkled with 'old light'........

passwordprotected

It's laughable that the "faithful slave" has a policy that disfellowships Jehovah's Witnesses for worshipping Jesus when the same "faithful slave" publishes a book that concedes that Jesus is indeed worshipped according to the Bible.

Oh, the laughs.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

The "Family Worship Night" TM is proving to be a bust as witnessed by the emphasis on it during this Summer's convention program. The Governing Body will see fit to further regulate in the guise of helping. I can see that they would provide a set program for families to follow, citing the difficulties some parents are having preparing a weekly program of "worship". So the GB will perhaps move the Book Study, Bible reading, and maybe elements of the Service meeting, such as rehearsing field service presentations, to "Family Worship Night" TM This would make room during the weekly meeting to consider the Private Watchtower.

Yep, I'd say that was an absolute given. Note a recent WT article entitled "Family Worship - Vital for Survival" where the GB outlines various ways of filling the evening...expect, as you say, a formal outline of 'study' and 'worship'*.

*this always makes me laugh. They're actually worshipping bits of paper with stuff printed on them.

7

Robert Wright:"A Grand Bargain Over Evolution"

by BurnTheShips in

robert wright is the author of "the evolution of god".

here is his thought provoking article on science and faith.. august 23, 2009op-ed contributora grand bargain over evolution .

by robert wright .

passwordprotected

William James said that religious belief is “the belief that there is an unseen order, and that our supreme good lies in harmoniously adjusting ourselves thereto.” Science has its own version of the unseen order, the laws of nature. In principle, the two kinds of order can themselves be put into harmony — and in that adjustment, too, may lie a supreme good.

Good stuff.

26

What's the best thing about no longer being a JW?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

i was thinking about how life has improved since leaving 3 years ago.. what has changed for you?

what's the best thing about no longer being a jw?.

bts.

passwordprotected

Being free from the Governing Body's religious dogmas and having friends who are unconditional in their love and respect.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

@ zombie dub;

just the public talk would be the way to go, albeit with 99% of the people not being public, they could spin it by saying even more time for FS afterwards. But then if they shunt the WT to mid week then the study book would have to go... which makes sense, they must be out of books to write and the ones which deal with Daniel, Isaiah and Revelation are probably the cause of many people's exit so would be good for them to drop them.

I think we're on the same page.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

In my area the religious majority (Protestant) chrurches (not sure of RCCs so I am staying silent) have Sunday Service and then another Wednesday Worship. So I can see the idea of an hour-long sermon/singing session and shuffling the WT (or other vehicle) into a Sunday school mode and perhaps reducing the mid-week meeting to a scriptural lesson that focuses on the control aspect. I just don't understand the direction of the alleged rumors should the FWN engulf the mid-week entirely.

Churches locally have the following services;

Sunday -

morning service consisting of worship, notices, Sunday school, a reading and teaching from the Bible and (depending on the church) communion
evening service consisting of worship then very focused teaching on various Christian topics/practical Christian living, etc

Midweek

community/small groups, usually meeting in private homes for times of worship, discussion, prayer etc
Bible study groups, usually meeting in private homes for study and prayer

My own church has the following;

Sunday -

Family Service - 12noon till 1pm - worship, notices, Sunday school, 30 minute reading and teaching geared towards the public, i.e. non-Christians, new Christians
Evening Service - 6pm till 7.30pm - worship, prayer, short readings with some lay-teaching, communion and a 30 minute talk aimed more at the needs of existing Christians

Monday -

Monday Group - small group meets at the church for either a time of extended prayer, a Q&A session (questions submitted to the elders in advance) or a focused study programme

If the Governing Body were to introduce a Sunday Meeting-lite where it was a 'wholesome, 'upbuilding', 'Bible-based' sermon aimed at the public (JW attendance would be compulsory), then they'd be fitting a more 'normal', less cult-ish pattern.

The Study Edition would move to the mega-meeting and everything else would be foisted onto Family Worship Night.

This would work for them on a number of levels, not least they look more like a regular church, they shield the public from the cultdom and they relieve the elders of much of the teaching.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

"He did not mean that ONLY the "public" would be there, but that both JWs and "public" would ................"

But that's exactly how it is now? and has been for decades? If PP meant that then what is different?

----

That's what we're trying to figure out. If this rumour is true then it suggests that the Governing Body don't really want the public to be on hand when the Study Edition is being 'studied' at the Sunday meeting. They used to have a gap between the Public Talk and the WT Study on Sunday, and some old timers thought that the reduction in length of the Public Talk was going to bring this arrangement back in again.

If they're planning a PUBLIC public meeting, ie. a 'wholesome, 'upbuilding', 'Bible-based' sermon on Sundays (and obviously, JW attendance would be mandatory), it would be to create a real demarkation between what's for PUBLIC consumption (like the PUBLIC edition of the Watchtower (which JWs are supposed to read, too)), and what's for the R&F.

The model for this is already in place within their literature output.

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

I don't think the Governing Body is interested in growing numbers. I think they're more interested in whittling and winnowing.

Think about it;

7 million Jehovah's Witnesses, 50% of whom (random figure) aren't really die-hards and are more interested in being socialites than Bethelites

or

3 million Jehovah's Witnesses who have proven their loyalty to 'mother' by sticking with the Governing Body, no matter what they're told to do

Which is more easier to control or extract 'donations' from?

21

Tightening of the Cult Handcuffs.

by passwordprotected in

i've been saying for almost a year that the wts can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the r&f.. if the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the wts is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.. changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement.

moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission.

or, and i think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone study edition meeting, perhaps later on a sunday?

passwordprotected

I've been saying for almost a year that the WTS can only go one way, and that's to be come more hardline and more cultish by tightening their grip on the R&F.

If the recent rumours seen here (and one of them was actually banded about last year) are going to pan out, then the WTS is well on it's way to become more cult-ish.

changes to the disfellowshipping arrangement. Moving away from judicial action, leaning more towards the person disassociating themselves due to their actions, either of commission or ommission. Included in this is the resurfacing rumour that the WTS will "go after" the faders by announcing them DAd by their [lack of] actions, i.e. no field service and meeting attendance. Let's face it, the WTS needs to close the fader's loophole
the alleged future change to the meetings. We've already seen them close off the meeting in private homes and create a new 'mega meeting' held on a midweek evening. This new rumour suggests that the Sunday meeting will be 'public only'. While there's no additional info to flesh this rumour out, I think this makes perfect sense and fits in with their cult status. And I'll explain;

What possible benefits to having a Study Edition Watchtower are there if the public are on hand when it's being studied at the meeting? If they wish to disseminate information that has cult stamped across it in big red letters, having a public and a Study Edition version of the Watchtower is the way to do it. But having the public at the meeting where this information is discussed and studied (worshipped?), by default - remember, the Sunday meeting includes the Public Talk - it sort of defeats the purpose of the Study Edition.

Making the Sunday meeting a proper public meeting would make the WTS, on the one hand, look more mainstream Christian (remember, many churches have two services on a Sunday - one that's more for the public, usually in the morning, and another that's more study orientated, usually in the evening). By removing the study of the Study Edition from this meeting, they can present a more socially acceptable front; offering fine Bible topics to the public without the public overhearing all of the cult talk that goes on in the Study Edition.

When will they study the Study Edition?

Perhaps it could be moved into the program of the midweek mega-meeting. Are they planning on phasing out the 'Bible' Study part of the midweek meeting and replacing it with some KoolAid consumption instead? Remember, they don't seem to be producing books that fit the old Book Study model. Or, and I think this is less likely, they have a stand-alone Study Edition meeting, perhaps later on a Sunday? Or, and this is what they used to do, they have a 15 minute break after the Public Talk so that the public can......leave?

Some points to bear in mind;

the public aren't generally invited to the midweek meeting
unbaptised people who attend the midweek meeting are usually at a sufficient level of mind-control to be able to absorb the KoolAid without any side effects as they are either long-term Bible studies heading towards baptism or children of existing members
the WTS probably needs to start tightening the control over the R&F so that they can continue to bring in the Governing Body's organisational changes (including the change to the disfellowshipping procedure), new policies and other cult practices; the primary method of disseminating such information is the Watchtower magazine
if they do remove the Watchtower study from the Sunday meeting, what will replace it, or will they leave the meeting at a socially acceptable 40 minutes (including songs and prayers)?

96

Tell a minister why the Bible alone is not enough to reach jw

by carla in

please tell a minister why the bible alone is not enough to reach a jw.

i feel the language, doctrines, translation, etc..etc... all of it must be known as well as the bible.

please, serious answers only, thank you..

passwordprotected

The Bible is interpreted by the Governing Body. Jehovah's Witnesses are told to loyally submit themselves to the Governing Body. Therefore, unless the person doing the speaking is of the Governing Body, a Jehovah's Witness is unlikely to believe them, regardless of what they show them from the Bible.

I can illustrate this.

The PO in our congregation told my wife and I that unless the Governing Body has made a comment on a particular scripture, Jehovah views that scripture as 'irrelevant'.
During my exit I showed my parents copious amounts of scripture regarding the false prophecies of the Governing Body (and other issues). However, a couple of months later they told me that they went away and did lots of studying and have decided what I said wasn't true. Bear in mind, I just used the Bible plus a couple of refences from the Proclaimers book. So, when they say 'studying', what they actually did was check what the Governing Body has to say about these issues.
Lastly, during my exit I was told by two separate Witnesses that Jesus has supplied us with the Governing Body to explain the Bible to us. I pointed out that he actually provided the Holy Spirit, to which they replied, "yes, but he only gives that to the faithful slave". Therefore, to a Witness, the Bible is only explained via the Governing Body. To add to this, at the 2008 baptism talk at our DC, the speaker said that the FDS was the mediator between us and the deep things of God.