Posts by passwordprotected

15

Another Elder has developed amnesia.

by umbertoecho in

the elder just being questioned is yet another sly manufacturer of deceit and the use of theocratic warfare.. how can these men say the can't remember when it's their own letters, their own implemented policies.

hell, it's their own books and magazines the commission is using, along with internal letters etc.

another dry mouth there........as he sat up all alone and experienced first hand the faith building experience of ....speaking with a thick tongue as all his juices dried up.........

passwordprotected

de Rooy is now saying he was sickened by what BCG's father did to her, yet he's just said he can't remember what her allegations where.

Busted, you lying piece of cult-worshipping crap.

15

Another Elder has developed amnesia.

by umbertoecho in

the elder just being questioned is yet another sly manufacturer of deceit and the use of theocratic warfare.. how can these men say the can't remember when it's their own letters, their own implemented policies.

hell, it's their own books and magazines the commission is using, along with internal letters etc.

another dry mouth there........as he sat up all alone and experienced first hand the faith building experience of ....speaking with a thick tongue as all his juices dried up.........

passwordprotected

I'm watching Ron de Rooy's testimony now, and his memory is unbelievably bad, even the Justice seems to be stunned by his lack of recollection.

However, even if an event of this nature happened 25+ years ago, I find it very odd that these men "can't recall" being told horrific allegations of incestuous abuse. Surely these would remain in your memory due to their shocking and upsetting nature.

63

Nine Seconds that says it all. Have these elders any shame?

by Wasanelder Once in

what can i add?

this says it all.. elder on stand is mute till prompted.. .

i guess i could encourage you to watch to the end and a guest commentary, lol..

passwordprotected

Room 2157 minutes ago

The question that begs a reply is: When, if ever, will the commission hear from any of the Bethel higher-ups?

I doubt they will hear from them. The case being discussed are those that were handled by local elders. However, it's clear that these local elders act in harmony with policies and practices handed down to them from said higher-ups.

As a result, the watching world can see inside the minds of the men who sit on high and hand down the treatment this commission is exposing.

63

Nine Seconds that says it all. Have these elders any shame?

by Wasanelder Once in

what can i add?

this says it all.. elder on stand is mute till prompted.. .

i guess i could encourage you to watch to the end and a guest commentary, lol..

passwordprotected

another thing is that the lawyer is judging what happened in 1988-89 by present day standards re child abuse. So if the elders want to come across as credible they need to focus on what little info re child abuse was available in Australia then.

To be fair, Ruby, you're talking about 1988-89 as if it were actually 1888-89.

Australia may be a British colony, a former home to excluded convicts, but surely the nation isn't so backwards in its approach to ethics and morals that child abuse was once seen as being as trite as stealing a loaf of bread.

We're dealing with universally reviled practises that are, according to the evidence on display, treated in the same way as theft or "fornication" between two consenting adults.

Australia is a developed nation with penal codes, you can't possibly be arguing that the Watchtower in that land didn't fully understand how harmful and appalling the abuse of children is and that somehow the religious organisation didn't know how to create policies and guidelines to protect its adherents and the community at large.

Sadly the JW elders in these cases are the ones who are being put on the stand to defend both themselves and the polices decreed upon them by the WTBTS headquarter's religious and legal departments.

But just because these men refused to think outside the religious box they've chosen to place themselves in doesn't mean they shouldn't be held to account by better educated men and women.

63

Nine Seconds that says it all. Have these elders any shame?

by Wasanelder Once in

what can i add?

this says it all.. elder on stand is mute till prompted.. .

i guess i could encourage you to watch to the end and a guest commentary, lol..

passwordprotected

The questioning from the RC is brilliant. Calm, reasoned, deliberate, using JW appropriate language (asides from using the word "church") and the responses - and lack thereof - clearly illustrates the rock/hard place JW elders are put in.

Drag "Jehovah's name through the mud" (where "Jehovah's name" directly means the Watchtower Society) or do the morally/societally correct thing?

Well, if you protect your religious organisation, as any loyal member of the order would do, you put society at large at risk and open yourself up to prosecution. And bear in mind these guys are insured for $100 each.

Or you do what is ethically correct - report child abuse to those placed in the qualified position to investigate - and face exclusion and shunning.

I don't envy these - or any - elders.

I hope this case reaches the eyes and ears of the elders I used to serve with, that it causes them to pause, and if for no other reason than to protect themselves and their families, they wake up to what the Governing Body expects them to do.

39

JW Reaction to Royal Commission Reports

by maksutov in

has anybody confronted any jws with the royal commission reports on the news yet?

i showed my 8-year old daughter a newspaper headline about it, and when she told my jw wife that the jws in australia were in trouble for not reporting over 1,000 child abusers to police, her response was "oh, really?

well, i don't know what the rules are over there.

passwordprotected

The fucking rules are you don't protect pedophiles, you don't put them in positions of authority and you don't force children to be interrogated when they report abuse.

Dumb ass.

17

Jehovah's Witness meets a Born Again Christian on a Train. Oh and a Muslim

by passwordprotected in

a couple of saturdays ago i and my girlfriend (who happens to be baptised into the greek orthodox religion, but practises greek catholic...no, she's not greek) were on the virgin train from glasgow to london.. we had reserved seats on the quiet zone of the train, because y'know, a 5 hour train journey shouldn't be sullied by mobile phones ringing and noisy conversations.. somewhere around the lake district a very tall woman sits at the table across the carriage from us, a table already occupied by a very chatty, bearded man in his late 50s, along with his wife.

this man was directing people where to stow their luggage and asking random travellers questions about their journey to the point where i sent my girlfriend a text message (easier to communicate that way without others overhearing us) asking if he was the "train boss".. he struck up a conversation with this new passenger about his travels, but i wasn't really paying attention as i was watching a movie on my ipad, wearing noise cancelling headphones.

after a little while i noticed they'd stopped chatting and the woman was now reading.

passwordprotected

@Quarterback - the noise cancelling is digital. The headphones analyse the ambient sounds and determine the frequency, cancelling noise from aircraft engines, trains etc. But they're smart enough to allow the human voice to get through a little. When you're listening to music, watching a movie etc, all external noise is completely cut off.

http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/headband-headphones/mdr-1rnc

I was more put off with what they were discussing; I couldn't actually hear them when I had the headphones on and the movie was playing, but my natural nosiness had me pausing the movie so that I could tap into the chat. Which was daft as it was just pissing me off...

17

Jehovah's Witness meets a Born Again Christian on a Train. Oh and a Muslim

by passwordprotected in

a couple of saturdays ago i and my girlfriend (who happens to be baptised into the greek orthodox religion, but practises greek catholic...no, she's not greek) were on the virgin train from glasgow to london.. we had reserved seats on the quiet zone of the train, because y'know, a 5 hour train journey shouldn't be sullied by mobile phones ringing and noisy conversations.. somewhere around the lake district a very tall woman sits at the table across the carriage from us, a table already occupied by a very chatty, bearded man in his late 50s, along with his wife.

this man was directing people where to stow their luggage and asking random travellers questions about their journey to the point where i sent my girlfriend a text message (easier to communicate that way without others overhearing us) asking if he was the "train boss".. he struck up a conversation with this new passenger about his travels, but i wasn't really paying attention as i was watching a movie on my ipad, wearing noise cancelling headphones.

after a little while i noticed they'd stopped chatting and the woman was now reading.

passwordprotected

I'm kinda past getting involved in religious debates and for all I was pissed off I didn't want to speak up because we still had a long journey to go and the tension in the carriage would have been worse than the religious rumblings. Plus as my girlfriend is a person of faith, albeit a different stripe from any evangelical type, I prefer to avoid pulling out my "crush the religious argument" arsenal.

17

Jehovah's Witness meets a Born Again Christian on a Train. Oh and a Muslim

by passwordprotected in

a couple of saturdays ago i and my girlfriend (who happens to be baptised into the greek orthodox religion, but practises greek catholic...no, she's not greek) were on the virgin train from glasgow to london.. we had reserved seats on the quiet zone of the train, because y'know, a 5 hour train journey shouldn't be sullied by mobile phones ringing and noisy conversations.. somewhere around the lake district a very tall woman sits at the table across the carriage from us, a table already occupied by a very chatty, bearded man in his late 50s, along with his wife.

this man was directing people where to stow their luggage and asking random travellers questions about their journey to the point where i sent my girlfriend a text message (easier to communicate that way without others overhearing us) asking if he was the "train boss".. he struck up a conversation with this new passenger about his travels, but i wasn't really paying attention as i was watching a movie on my ipad, wearing noise cancelling headphones.

after a little while i noticed they'd stopped chatting and the woman was now reading.

passwordprotected

A couple of Saturdays ago I and my girlfriend (who happens to be baptised into the Greek Orthodox religion, but practises Greek Catholic...No, she's not Greek) were on the Virgin train from Glasgow to London.

We had reserved seats on the Quiet Zone of the train, because y'know, a 5 hour train journey shouldn't be sullied by mobile phones ringing and noisy conversations.

Somewhere around the Lake District a very tall woman sits at the table across the carriage from us, a table already occupied by a very chatty, bearded man in his late 50s, along with his wife. This man was directing people where to stow their luggage and asking random travellers questions about their journey to the point where I sent my girlfriend a text message (easier to communicate that way without others overhearing us) asking if he was the "train boss".

He struck up a conversation with this new passenger about his travels, but I wasn't really paying attention as I was watching a movie on my iPad, wearing noise cancelling headphones. After a little while I noticed they'd stopped chatting and the woman was now reading. The Bible, as it turned out. And not just any Bible, but one jacketed in silver faux leather. Yes, a newly revised NWT.

And then I noticed that the man behind to her was a Muslim and he was reading the Quran.

Jeezo.

After several minutes of Bible reading out comes the Watchtower, which she starts underlining...Talk about horrifying flashbacks. Via text messages I explained to my girlfriend what she was doing and why she was doing it, and about how the Watchtower "study" is a braindead exercise in making people...braindead.

A little while later I notice the bearded man strike up some chat with the Jehovah's Witness again, this time asking her about the JW doctrines. Of course, the trinity gets mentioned and the JW rolls out the standard "Reasoning From the Scriptures" retorts.

Their conversation continues for a long time while the bearded born again Christian refers to a little doctrinal pamphlet in his hand and the JW rolls out the stock WTBTS approved responses.

Each was witnessing to the other. Each was trying to convert the other.

Meanwhile the Muslim man sat quietly with his Quran and some prayer beads...

Meanwhile I was getting more and more pissed off.

Firstly, this was a Quiet Zone carriage. So they shoulda shut the fuck up. Secondly, hearing the born again Christian "conversion" process (he actually asked her quite loudly whether she accepted Christ was raised from the dead to forgive her sins, at which point my girlfriend and the woman sitting opposite us looked at each other with raised eyebrows) going toe-to-toe with the JW witnessing algorithms, was driving me bonkers as I have enough experience with both to see all the logical fallacies and special pleading and it was taking all of my self-control not to butt into the conversation (in the Quiet Zone) and verbal shoot their arguments down in flames.

And lastly, this is 2015 and people are still debating and arguing over the deeds of a very likely mythical rabbi called Jesus, making judgements, determining life decisions based on the pontifications of men who died hundreds of years ago, the men who decided the canon of scripture and who seemingly set in stone doctrines and orthodoxy that have been debated and fought over long after they lost any relevance to life in our 21st century world...

And all the while the Muslim kept his council and his spirituality to himself.

Y'know, when you buy a seat in the Quiet Zone, I really wish people would do just that - keep quiet.

Anyway, after a long time their conversation ended and our JW passenger turned to the back of her NWT and made sure she refreshed her doctrinal opinions with GB approved logic from the Appendix....

38

Was it worth it?

by John Aquila in

for those of you who left family and friends and had to start over from scratch just to get out of the organization, was it worth it?.

.

passwordprotected

Freedom of self and mind is worth it at any cost.