i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
Define punish
An announcement is made, "So and So is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", meaning that thru their actions (and we're talking about someone who has left and joined another church, for example) they are now to be shunned, en mass, by those who still are known as Jehovah's Witnesses.
That is punishment.
Should a person be made to worship God in a way he feels unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs or his family?
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
Let's be clear;
- I am not suggesting that the religion should not have the right to eject membership
- I am not suggesting that the members of the religion should not have the right to behave how they wish, i.e. voluntarily shun ex-members
What I'm saying is, why are the WTS unchallenged on teaching that it's membership should, as stated in official doctrine and policy, shun those who wish to leave the group, join a new church or otherwise renounce their membership?
Bear in mind, shunning disassociated ones is not a matter of personal choice or conscience; it is official WTS policy and doctrine. Failure to abide by this will result in judicial action being taken.
Also, going to another church is grounds for judicial action and punishment. Failure to attend the judicial hearing results in automatic ejection from the group. That person is then subject to shunning, not just voluntarily on the part of those still in the group, but as per the official doctrine and policy.
Should the WTS be granted the religious freedoms they enjoy here in the UK and in the States when they do not afford their own membership such freedoms? Or do we continue to just roll over and wish the whole thing hadn't happened?
How many would leave the WTS if they knew they could and not be shunned by their family and friends?
And many shun family and friends, not because they actually want to, but because they believe it's what GOD wants, as told to them by the WTS?
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
@ LeavingWT - but if our basic human rights, as outlined by the UN, allow us to change or recant our beliefs without coercion of punishment, why are the WTS allowed to implement penal sanctions against those who do this very thing?
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
Who would the action be taken against; the WTS or the brothers who sign the forms which class you as disfellowshipped or disassociated?
i saw this on wikipedia:.
the united nations commission on human rights, considers the recanting of a person's religion a human right legally protected by the international covenant on civil and political rights: "the committee observes that the freedom to 'have or to adopt' a religion or belief necessarily entails the freedom to choose a religion or belief, including the right to replace one's current religion or belief with another or to adopt atheistic views [...] article 18.2 bars coercion that would impair the right to have or adopt a religion or belief, including the use of threat of physical force or penal sanctions to compel believers or non-believers to adhere to their religious beliefs and congregations, to recant their religion or belief or to convert."[5].
seems to me that being shunned by family and friends for quitting jehovah's witnesses would be penal sanctions.. .
bttt
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
My understanding is that if the govt intervened, it would be an infringement on the religious rights of the wt society. The wt society has all of the same rights, as does any individual.
Does the religious group have the right to punish those who leave?
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
I think the ones who care, Stephen, are those who are in the Organisation, no longer believe the Governing Body, wish to leave, but are fearful of the penal sanctions imposed on those who leave; i.e. change their religion.
So, while I've left, my heart goes out to those who are still in and are trapped through fear.
Does the WTS get away with it's denial of human rights because they are never challenged on it?
can anyone supply me with a hi-res scan of the infamous "changing your religion" article, please?
it's to display on a website i'm planning..
Thanks! Sorry I missed this.
i'm listening to part two of hobo ken's first judicial committee meeting.
the part of the proceedings i'm at is where the 3 elders on the committee are interrogating hobo about his fellowship with my wife and me (we had started attending a church, this had become known to our respective families, so to save them having to testify against us we dad).
one elder in particular has a thorn up his backside (and he knows who he his) because hobo, iknowall and their kids went on holiday with us pre-hobo's disfellowshipping.
So if the government has pledged to uphold the UNDHR and Article 18 of the UNHDR states that everyone has the right to religious freedom and to change their religion, surely the WTS can be held accountable for denying this right to it's membership.
