passwordprotected

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Posts by passwordprotected

• 
  232

  Is Atheism a Form of Blind Faith?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if god is outside of nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved by science, is atheism a form of blind faith?

  after all, it cannot be defended on the basis of pure reason.. steven jay gould said;.

  "science simply cannot by its legitimate methods adjudicate the issue of god's possible superintendence of nature.

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  passwordprotected

  It's been pointed out to you in this thread at least once and you seem to be missing it.

  I'm not missing it.

  Probably there's no God.

  Fine.

  But what if there is?
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  75

  Why Do people think they need A GOD to be good people?

  by LucyA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i decided after much study and soul searching that i dont believe in god.

  ive noticed recently (not on the forum but others) some people seem to think that if i dont believe in a god that im obviously morally bankrupt.

  i dont feel this way as i give a portion of my income to charity and i have never set out to harm anyone else.

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  passwordprotected

  I should add;

  What is your problem w animals?

  I'm no expert, but this looks like a strawman.
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  25

  Human Animals?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  inspired by this comment (post 16581 from satanus), i dug out a quote from richard dawkins;.

  i wonder whether, some 60 years after hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons.

  or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them.

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  passwordprotected

  You can read it in context here.

  I'm not sure what difference the context makes. If humans are merely animals, then killing humans because they do not have the desired breeding qualities will be acceptable. Deciding which human animals can and should breed will also be acceptable. Is taking Hitler's core ideas and moving forward with them, putting a more presentable face on them, ok? What if someone without a silly small moustache was the face of eugenics? What that be ok?

  Is reducing humans to the same status as animals, in a world where animals are bred, farmed, killed and used as 'machines', a good thing? Didn't it lead to serious issues previously, such as "ethnic cleansing"?

  People are welcome to think that eugenics is a good thing and that social Darwinism should be explored and developed.

  I don't happen to agree.

  I don't think it's ever acceptable to reduce humans to mere animals.

  I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them. I can think of some answers, and they are good ones, which would probably end up persuading me. But hasn't the time come when we should stop being frightened even to put the question?

  Notice the use of "moral difference". Was what Hitler tried to accomplish moral or immoral? Or did he just balls it all up for the eugenicists by proving to be too extreme? Should human animals be more gently moved into selective bredding rather than pushed into it with a cattle prod the way Hitler did?

  Dawkins isn't afraid to ask the questions that Hitler ballsed up and made politically incorrect. I personally believe that reducing humans to mere breeding commodities (or animals) is immoral.
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  75

  Why Do people think they need A GOD to be good people?

  by LucyA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i decided after much study and soul searching that i dont believe in god.

  ive noticed recently (not on the forum but others) some people seem to think that if i dont believe in a god that im obviously morally bankrupt.

  i dont feel this way as i give a portion of my income to charity and i have never set out to harm anyone else.

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  passwordprotected

  I don't have a problem with animals. I own a black labrador.
• 
  25

  Human Animals?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  inspired by this comment (post 16581 from satanus), i dug out a quote from richard dawkins;.

  i wonder whether, some 60 years after hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons.

  or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  passwordprotected

  Inspired by this comment (post 16581 from Satanus), I dug out a quote from Richard Dawkins;

  I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them. I can think of some answers, and they are good ones, which would probably end up persuading me. But hasn't the time come when we should stop being frightened even to put the question?

  You can read it in context here.
• 
  75

  Why Do people think they need A GOD to be good people?

  by LucyA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i decided after much study and soul searching that i dont believe in god.

  ive noticed recently (not on the forum but others) some people seem to think that if i dont believe in a god that im obviously morally bankrupt.

  i dont feel this way as i give a portion of my income to charity and i have never set out to harm anyone else.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  passwordprotected

  "Human animals"

  Reductionism at its finest.
• 
  75

  Why Do people think they need A GOD to be good people?

  by LucyA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i decided after much study and soul searching that i dont believe in god.

  ive noticed recently (not on the forum but others) some people seem to think that if i dont believe in a god that im obviously morally bankrupt.

  i dont feel this way as i give a portion of my income to charity and i have never set out to harm anyone else.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  @ ATJ - "I actually think there is something to this. I don't think however that the answer lies in Christianity, to be honest."

  I'm not arguing for Christianity on this issue. I'm arguing that people examine Moral Law and ask where, through evolution, it came about. It's difficult to talk about "living a good life" without asking "who decides what's a good life?" If there's something in us that draws us to want to do and receive good, and repels us from evil, how did it get inside us?
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  232

  Is Atheism a Form of Blind Faith?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if god is outside of nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved by science, is atheism a form of blind faith?

  after all, it cannot be defended on the basis of pure reason.. steven jay gould said;.

  "science simply cannot by its legitimate methods adjudicate the issue of god's possible superintendence of nature.

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  passwordprotected

  @ ATJ - "I find in your post that this idea that "faith" must include a "faith of non belief" is absurd. But I can't change your mind on that it seems.

  Should atheists continue to look for god because you insist Password? When is it time to stop looking at what hasn't/cannot be found?"

  You can find it absurd if you wish, but look at it logically; lack of evidence and belief despite the lack of evidence requires faith. Maybe you need to unhook the word 'religious' from faith for it to make sense in this context.

  I'm not insisting that atheists look for God. Where did that come across? I'm challenging them to look at the fact that some of the mud they sling at believers in God has actually managed to get on them too, namely both groups have a faith.

  Dawkins says it should be illegal for parents to indoctrinate their children with their religious beliefs. Yet he wrote an open letter to his daughter that starts with the line "Now that you are 10..." and goes onto explain how it's wrong to have beliefs without evidence (it's an interesting read, it's like the Ladybird Books version of the God Delusion).

  Isn't that indoctrinating a child with his particular beliefs?

  So, sometimes both camps have the same junk in their backyard, but are pointing and shouting at the other camp to clean their mess up.
• 
  232

  Is Atheism a Form of Blind Faith?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if god is outside of nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved by science, is atheism a form of blind faith?

  after all, it cannot be defended on the basis of pure reason.. steven jay gould said;.

  "science simply cannot by its legitimate methods adjudicate the issue of god's possible superintendence of nature.

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  passwordprotected

  @ AllTimeJeff - "I suppose thats the thing. Password and Perry, you might mean well, but your agenda is not lost on anyone here. The agenda isn't to show that god may or may not exist. The agenda is to convince us that Jesus is that higher power, that god that must be worshipped."

  Now, come on. I'm not saying anywhere on this thread that Jesus is to be worshipped. Please don't slap agendas onto my arguments.

  As for faith, it might be worth seeking a scientist and asking him about faith and whether he has it. You may find, if he's very honest, he'll be like the physicist I was speaking to a few weeks ago who conceding that faith is an intrinsic part of what he does, day in day out; until he has the data, he's working with faith.

  Earlier someone said something about their being multi-universes, or similar. Do scientists have the data on this theory, or are they taking a hunch and going on faith, faith that their hunch may be true - even though they've no evidence - and then working to prove their theory?

  It's amazing how prickly the atheists here get when the word faith is put anywhere near them in a sentence. At the end of the day, take a long hard look at what you believe;

  - humans are pitiless creatures with no hope or purpose, no better than fish or elephants

  - God is a fanciful notion invented by humans in a more stunted intellectual state

  Yet you believe this without the data.

  You believe it, perhaps, because it's what you want to believe or because it's what your experience tells you.

  I believe it's important to consider the wording when your read atheist CliffNotes;

  There's probably no God.

  The word 'probably' is key. That means they don't have the evidence to say 'there's absolutely no God'. And because they don't have the evidence they're working blind.

  Therefore their faith (i.e. complete trust and confidence) that God does not exist is blind (there's no data or evidence to back it up).
• 
  232

  Is Atheism a Form of Blind Faith?

  by passwordprotected in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if god is outside of nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved by science, is atheism a form of blind faith?

  after all, it cannot be defended on the basis of pure reason.. steven jay gould said;.

  "science simply cannot by its legitimate methods adjudicate the issue of god's possible superintendence of nature.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  passwordprotected

  "The burden of proof is on you.

  Scientists are beginning to suspect that there is a Multiverse, a Universe of universes from which our own popped out. You can think of our universe as a bubble in a foam of eternal beer.No, I'm not kidding.

  villabolo"

  Why is the burden of proof on us? Prove that God doesn't exist/prove that he does exist. Face it; faith is required whatever side you fall down on.