Posts by passwordprotected

52

THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

passwordprotected

A few observations – like others , I always felt that essentially the 3 Cos were just trying to uphold the appeal & get away as soon as possible. There seemed to be no effort made to “gain you” , but I guess this is a consequence of the appeal system which simply seeks to determine if the DF one was repentant at the time of the original hearing.

The Appeal Committee would have been fully briefed at the destructive influence Matt was on my and my wife. People were out for Matt's blood for what he'd done to us, how he'd poisoned our minds against the "slave" (not the King). In truth, I was the one who went to Matt with my doubts and issues, not the other way around. That fact is merrily ignored as it doesn't fit with the presumed truth.

Notice that Matt was asked about attending religious services in homes or other buildings. That had nothing to do with the original decison to DF and the Appeal Committee (Phil Jones in particular) knew that. This question arose because it was strongly suspected that Matt was going to church services with Gail and me. Which he was. This alone points to "behind the scenes" discussions on how to nail him, along with the question on blood transfusions. Blood transfusions weren't mentioned at the original hearing, but it was known that Matt had questions about blood fractions and hadn't carried a Blood Card for years.

As Phil Jones pointed out, in Matt's current "condition" he's "had it" at Armageddon. That's the level these guys are operating on; they genuinely believe they have the power of eternal life or death over you. Is awareness of that power matched with humility and love? Well, as Ian Shanks said, "he has a diploma from the Society", all they care about is "the slave", not the King. And certainly not the lives of the people over whom they preside.

52

THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

passwordprotected

Spirituality is measured in units of loyalty to the "slave" (not the King).

For example, Matt's brother Paul's spiritual stock has increased immeasurably. I suggested to Matt many months ago that his brother would move against him, even testifying against him in the Watchtower's star chamber, all so that his spirituality is recognised and rewarded. Matt didn't think his brother would do that. The evidence suggests otherwise, sadly.

I guarantee you that Brother Paul Barrie will become an even brighter star in the Lanarkshire #1 Circuit; he was so loyal to the "slave" (not the King) that he was prepared to compile evidence against his kin and then present that evidence as a demonstration of his loyality (to the "slave, not the King).

But remember, "no one should be forced to choose between his family and his beliefs" . Brother Paul Barrie knew that. Remember this the next time you hear him (or Benzie, Jones or Shanks) at your next Lanarkshire #1 Circuit Assembly or Special Assembly Day or District Convention.

52

THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

passwordprotected

It's unfortunate this means that the situation is a bit contrived and does not perfectly reflect how a committee would normally take place.

If any JW were to go back to the start of the audio recordings, to when Ronnie and Gordon (and then Ronnie and Paul) visited Matt and Lorraine, then they'd get to hear what it's really like. Matt and Lorraine weren't proselytizing and they weren't going to the meetings, yet two elders still came and pumped them for info on what was going on "spiritually". The Appeal Committee is the most contrived part of the whole proceedings, the only part that Matt actually instigated himself.

The elders had decided (with a little pushing from certain other people who may or may not be related to me) to get blood. Several months passed between the home visits and Matt's initial JC. In-between times he had gone on holiday with us and called Ronnie out at the Kingdom Hall. That was all they needed to act on what he had said during the home visits. Lesson? If you really, really must fade, don't allow the elders to visit you and never, ever speak to anyone who knows you about how you actually feel. (Just DA is my advice....)

Also, what the Appeal Committee audio demonstrates to any JW who may listen is that the elders are not interested in what you believe about God, Jesus or the Bible. It went a little something like this "Ok, Matt, let's put aside the compelling evidence that the decision to disfellowship you for saying Jesus is to be worshipped was a miscarraige of theocratic justice. So, how do you believe "faithful slave" is being used by Jehovah on earth today?" -- that's all they care about.

Also, their comments about "not being legalistic"; I hope any practising JW hearing Martin Benzie say that the proceedings weren't legalistic will choke on their coffee and donut. Not legalistic...for real? 6 elders who serve as prosecutors, jury and judge? Testimony bearing witnesses? Having to "address the chair" when you want to cross examine a witness? Deliberation? Judgement? None of that is legalistic? Hmmm....

52

THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

passwordprotected

I'd have disfellowshipped Matt for his attitude; how dare he calmly stand up to the glorious ones.

As an elder said to me during my exit, "forget what Jesus said".

52

THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!

by Hobo Ken in

jw
friends

this is the final of my series of podcasts in which the 3 circuit overseers decide my fate as a jehovah's witness.. my blog- deathorobedience.blogspot.com.

podcast 12 the final verdict- play the audio.

also available free on itunes (just search on itunes).. .

passwordprotected

Ronnie Hunter knows the script re. 607. This isn't the first time he's been involved with a case like this. He's had it consistently and calmly pointed out to him, along with many other Watchtower errors. I don't think he's deserving of sympathy for doing what he did in this case.

The Scottish guy doing most of the talking is Martin Benzie, career-JW. He's the chairman of the appeal committee. The other Scottish guy, the beligerent one, is Philip Jones, career-JW and MTS-grad (he didn't take up his assignment afterwards, but prefered to return to his home congregation, where he lived with his mum. Interesting story; he got married in his 40s. He and his bride didn't have their own home, so he went back to live with his mum and she went back to live with her parents until they got their own place...), regular pioneer. The English-Mid-Atlantic sounding guy (he's lived in Scotland since his early teens, yet still clutches the strange accent picked up in Australia, 40 years on) is Ian Shanks, career-JW, single, lives with his parents, erstwhile CO.

All 3 on the appeal committee have served, either as stand-ins or permanent, Circuit Overseers. All 3 are regular pioneers.

So, Matt's first committee disfellowshipped him for believing Jesus should be worshipped (look this up in the Reasoning Book). The appeal committee upheld this even though Matt showed them that it's in the Society's legal charter that Jesus should be worshippped (it's also in the Bible, but since when did that matter?). The final decision taken to disfellowship was based on Matt not showing honour to the 'glorious ones'. Who are the 'glorious ones' in this scenario? The elders on the appeal committee.

What did we think of Martin Benzie discussing John 6 and the whole "where else do we go" topic? Notice how Matt says that it's Jesus we go to and how Martin's next question - without missing a beat - was "and who is Jesus using on earth today?", as if that was at any time part of the discussion between Jesus and Peter.
What did we think about Phillips ascertion that the Gospel isn't about salvation but about Jehovah's universal sovereignty (a phrase found nowhere in the Bible)?
What do we think of Ronnie Moffatt's (chairman of the initial committee) mumbled utterance of "sorry" as Matt was leaving the Kingdom Hall?

63

Is Christianity a form of mental disorder?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

take the average born again.

they begin their day imagining a powerful imaginary friend, and then go around mocking rational people and daring them to disprove the imaginary friend exists.

some even hear voices from their imaginary friend and claim he exercises magic for their benefit.

passwordprotected

Yes, I would agree. I'll happily retract my previous statements.

63

Is Christianity a form of mental disorder?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

take the average born again.

they begin their day imagining a powerful imaginary friend, and then go around mocking rational people and daring them to disprove the imaginary friend exists.

some even hear voices from their imaginary friend and claim he exercises magic for their benefit.

passwordprotected

Yes, he has a mental disorder.

63

Is Christianity a form of mental disorder?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

take the average born again.

they begin their day imagining a powerful imaginary friend, and then go around mocking rational people and daring them to disprove the imaginary friend exists.

some even hear voices from their imaginary friend and claim he exercises magic for their benefit.

passwordprotected

Child molestation is a crime resulting from a mental disorder.

19

Are Atheists just Mere Animals like Donkeys?

by Psychotic Parrot in

jw
friends

richard dawkins said this:.

"...well, i think it is fair to say that if you were to...".

you can read it in context somewhere else probably.

passwordprotected

Touche.

63

Is Christianity a form of mental disorder?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

take the average born again.

they begin their day imagining a powerful imaginary friend, and then go around mocking rational people and daring them to disprove the imaginary friend exists.

some even hear voices from their imaginary friend and claim he exercises magic for their benefit.

passwordprotected

I was at a church in Port Glasgow on Sunday night that's affiliated with Teen Challenge, a Christian outreach aimed at helping people with addictions. The church was packed, but most of those there weren't Christians; they were down-and-outs, prostitutes, addicts; people in the worst straits imaginable. We sang songs, a few people told their testimony of how their life had been cleaned up and then at the end massive boxes of food; bread, cakes, tinned goods etc, were brought out and those who needed it were able to take what they wanted.

Each Friday night throughout Glasgow and the surrounding area buses arrive with hot tea, coffee, soup, sandwiches on-board, manned by Christians who want to feed the hungry sleeping rough in the city. There's no evangelising. They just want to make a difference. Some of my closest friends work on these buses and they are the most sincere, kind people you could ever meet.

I fully recognise the appalling crap done in the name of Christ, the nutters who let children die rather than go to a hospital because they want God to heal their child, people who blow up abortion clinics and similar. It makes me sick to my stomach. But I don't think the minority of nut-job so-called Christians take away from the majority of Christians who genuinely want to make a difference in the world, whether it's through feeding the homeless, building schools in Africa or knocking doors with a Christian Aid collection tin.