Posts by HildaBingen

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

:Okay, thank you. Now I realize that you wish to question Bowen's motives. That's fine. But, since his primary concern is reforming WT policy so that it is more protective of innocent children, I must ask you what motivates YOU? Why would you, who so clearly detests child molestation, question the motives of someone who's clear intent is to stop it? Would you know what I think motivates YOU? It's protecting the JW organization. Therefore, when you say you "have no desire to protect the image of any religious organization", in my humble little opinion, you are lying.:

The problem is that I am not sure what Bowen's motives are. He could want to reform WT policy and he might want to both reform policy and make a name for himself. I don't know. But it seems that if the man was so concerned about children and not self-glory, he would tell members of this JW.com to stop praising him so much. Think what you want, my dear. I only answer to God and Christ.

To Precious Mimilly

:Hilda -

It is YOU who needs to examine YOUR kidneys and motives here. You have yakked your way around in circles since posting. You are not interested in truth or the protection of abused ones. Anyone who is, does not yak their way around in circles. It is not an issue to be side-stepped. It is YOU who is on the fence.:

I am not yakking my way in circles, dear. Sorry if you have been abused but you fail to understand the mystic. The contemplative moves circularly in an upward spiral as she aims for ultimate truth. To the unilluminated, it may seem that the mystic is yakking around. But appearances can be deceptive, dear.

:It is people such as yourself who allow the abuse to continue. Maybe you don't like the whole thing being exposed because, just maybe, YOU are an abuser! Keep it all silent, wait on God.. blah blah blah. How convenient for you.

silentlamb with a voice. Must be terrifying for you eh?:

I am no abuser, hon, I can assure you of that. I have suffered abuse however. So I know what you are going through, dear. However there is a right way and a wrong way to expose abuse. One does not have to get pats on the back when he or she decides to uncover power/knowledge structures that undergird abuse. The righteous have no reason to fear anyone and they do all things to the glory of Yahweh.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

:Be careful you don't mix up a loyal JW (Jehovah's Witness company man) with a loyal JW (witness of Jehovah). Anyone can see Mr. Bowen is not being disloyal to his Jehovah by trying to protect the children but causing corporate headquarters of the Jehovah's Witness organization to feel uncomfortable. On the contrary, he is not sitting on the fence. He was taught & believed all his life that he was following his God by obeying the corporation. He was taught so well by these professionals that he is now practicing what he had preached. But not on a whim or hearsay. You are seeing and hearing the outcome of years of struggle.:

Is Mr Bowen trying to protect the children? Maybe he is. That still remains a question to me. But, whether he is or not, he has still tried to sit on the fence by attempting to remain a JW while having his name plastered all over Christianity Today or CNN criticizing the JW religion. Did he really think that JWs were simply going to sit back and approve of his method (his MO) without calling him on it? What is more, his approach is misrepresentative in some ways and I am highly suspicious of his dodgy data.

:It is clear from your posts that your primary concern is with protecting the image of the JWs. You say you do not advocate child abuse out of one side of your mouth, yet you support what caused child abuse in the JW organization out of the other side of your mouth. You are either an insincere apologist or extremely confused, trying to play the "God" card while elder Alfred bangs little Sally-Sue a few miles away.:

I have no desire to protect the image of any religous organization. If religions sin (JW or not), let the chips fall where they may. I do not support child abuse occurring in any organization nor do any JWs that I know. I think that most Witnesses of Jehovah would eschew pedophilia since they have been internally conditioned to detest and hate this crime against children. My concern at this point could be no clearer. What motivates Mr Bowen? If he can sleep at night, more power to him. I am simply thinking out loud.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Mr or Mrs Kismet:

:For several years I waited on God to fix the problems within the Organization. I struggled at the highest levels to instigate change from within. I sat and watched children die due to the blood issue. Two of them dying in front of me.:

That is truly sad. I can only imagine the inward angst you went through at that time.

:While at Bethel, I received report after report of elders abusing the flock emotionally and occasionally sexually. I saw the underbelly of this group self-proclaimed God's Chosen People, The Watchtower Society, and let me tell you, it isn't pretty.:

I am not denying the truthfulness of at least some of what Mr Bowen says. My questions have more to do with his method. Why not leave the organization before you begin to publically take it on, instead of starting a row while claiming to be a loyal JW? I do not understand that mindset. It is like Mr Bowen wants to sit on the fence and have the name of JW while criticizing the organization. Me fails to understand where he is coming from, that man.

:Are you now saying to the children who have been abused, "Shhhhh just endure the abuse. Remain quiet, Jehovah loves those covering over a matter?" Meanwhile these children are emotionally scarred for life. Yes, let's just wait on god.:

I made it clear that I detest child abuse. Moreover policy in the WT probably should be changed. But methinks there could be another way besides bringing all this negative publicity on the JWs and making people think they all advocate pedophilia. That is simply not true anymore than its correct to say that Catholics espouse child abuse.

:I am sorry but there are thousands of cases of abuse within the Jehovah's Witness religion in the States alone. How much longer do you feel the silent lambs should wait on God? How many Jews died waiting on God in 1941-45. How many children have to wait on this same God to end their suffering at the hands of perverse and mentally sick people?:

How do you know that there are thousands of abuse cases in the US? Can you verify this stat with empirical evidence? Or is it just hearsay?

And I stand by what I said earlier. It is always right to wait upon God, as long as we understand what that expression means. Don't blame Yahweh for the wickedness of humans. Just what could the Jews have done differently to make their plight better besides waiting on God? You tell me, please.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Dear Ken:

:Hilda.

If God was involved in a caring way with mankind there wouldn't be a problem like this in His church, or is He just not here?:

Do you believe in free will, Ken? If one does believe that man is free as regards his volition--and I do--it seems hard to contend that the world could possibly be without evil, even with the presence of a good God. Certain theologians think that such a concept is impossible. They believe that where there is free will, there will necessarily be evil. I agree for the most part with this proposition.

:Show me one way that he is involved in any of man's activities? Religions are as divided as any of man's pursuits, or should I say more divided?:

Religion is not necessarily the answer to the problems of humanity. Many times it is the cause of dreadful problems. One must learn to differentiate between God/religion and false religion/true religion and even between the "wheat" in the true religion. Read what Augustine has to say about the church being a mixed body and I think you will see what I mean.

I myself see God in the daily activities of the world. God is in nature, to me. He is also in humans insofar as they act kindly and love one another (the natural law of Thomas Aquinas and the apostle Paul). However remember that humans also have a demonic side as well. Without getting into the specifics of how such a demonic nature originated, let me just say that methinks the human sciences have long demonstrated (in a non-religios way) that humans have something akin to what Paul Tillich called "the demonic." Freud speaks of the id while Christians call the phenomenon "sin."

:Like the latest Watchtower says, he will solve all man's problems by destroying them, not changing them.:

I don't think that humanity, as a whole, is capable of change. God will have to destroy this wicked age to set matters right once and for all. However there seems to be no other choice unless we all desire to live in a world that is either populated by evildoers or robots who do what is good at all times.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Will and Meta,

You may be right. Bill's actions will possibly do some good. Time will tell. But I am not one to believe that the rightness or wrongness of actions can strictly be measured in terms of consequences. Of course that sword cuts both ways, my dears.

On the other hand, maybe God is using Bowen and his motives are noble. Time will tell. I only pose questions; none of us have ironclad answers.

Yet another thing to consider is God's role in matters. God is an ontological mystery--like life itself. We cannot fathom the infinte depths of the divine one. Man often wrongly ascribes blame to God for things that he himself (man) does (Proverbs 19:3).

The unexamined life is not worth living.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

What is it with you folks here? The anger present in this forum is simply amazing. Why not try Christ and the tranquility that comes from trusting in him?

:Hilda in Christ:

Naeb is right. You ARE an idiot. And about as much of a mystic as your buddy Paul was.:

Mr Naebs never directly called me an idiot. He used the term without attaching a referent to it. So who is the ignorant one?

:You also seem to know nothing about what DAing or DFing means. And to think Bill is seeking some kind of glory out of this is ludicrous.:

I may not know what DA or DF means. But that does nothing to change the fact that Mr Bill is possibly pursuing glory for himself. Hey, Korah sought personal glory by going against Moses, God's representative. Why can't Bill seek a glorious name (shem) for himself by making himself a martyr?

As the blessed Dionysius wrote--the mystic contemplates divine ideas in realms that are too transcendent for mere unilluminated mortals. She resides in the "clouds" where language breaks down and words eventually mean nothing, a sort of linguistic cosmic singularity.

I am therefore not here to win arguments. Hilda has more questions than she does answers.

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Dearest Naebs,

:The very fact that you have to ask speaks volumes. What "better" ways besides going to the media would you have suggested?:

The fact that I have to ask speaks volumes about what? I would recommend waiting on Yahweh. He is our rock and our salvation.

:Let's see what you can come up with.:

There is no better way than sitting in the dust and waiting on the certain inward word from God. Relying on God always works.

:And also, besides having a picture of him in the newspaper, what exactly do you think Bill has gained from this? Please be specific.:

One concrete example. Bill has also received a lot of back slapping from most everyone here for his efforts. Why not carry out his work in a self-effacing way?

And have you also taken any anger management classes? I come here asking sincere questions and you latch on to me like a bee on honey. What is up with that?

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Dear Matty,

So you think it is okay for others to use subterfuge and pretension in order to influence the unwary? To me that is so unethical. It is downright hypocritical.

Brother Paul, with whom I am mystically in Christ, wrote:

"For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Jesus, but of their own bellies; and by smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of the guileless ones" (Romans 16:18).

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

Dear Naebs,

That is exactly what I was thinking. Mr Bill seems to be one seeking glory for himself. How sickening!

There are other routes he could have taken without running to NBC or CNN.

BTW, were you calling me an idiot or Mr Bowen?

87

Bill Bowen "Kidneys"

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

as a mystical christian, i am just as distressed about child molestation as is mr bowen.

however i wonder about this man's motives.

why did he choose to handle his row with the witness organization in this way?

HildaBingen

As a mystical Christian, I am just as distressed about child molestation as is Mr Bowen. However I wonder about this man's motives. Why did he choose to handle his row with the Witness organization in this way? Why not DA himself first and then fight against the WTS? Why put himself out in the forefront and make himself the centre of attention?

Just some questions that I have about Bill's "innermost motives" or his "kidneys."