hillary_step

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Posts by hillary_step

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  48

  Are You Content Within Yourself?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  leaving the borg of jehovah presents a somewhat lonely existence for many of us fallen angels.

  for a time we may seek to find an entirely new body-associate.

  many may find that after so many years in a controlled environment like the watchtower that they have a hard time finding a large group of friends again.

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  hillary_step
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  115

  How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i got the idea for this thread by talking with a friend this weekend who had been abused by a father when young.

  this person confronted this parent about it and got a very self righteous reply back from the offender.

  already a precedent for exposing the watchtower society has been set.

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  hillary_step

  Big Tex,

  When I first came on this board 6 years ago, things were quite a bit more "wild west" (to use Bowen's phrase from his goodbye thread), much more in-your-face than now, but I did notice that with a handful of people, there was some depth and intelligence to the very frank talk. In your case, I noticed something more, you had a side that isn't on display. You challenge people to work to see it, but once it is seen you become a much more rounded, perceptive, kind and extraordinarily big hearted man; I still see that in very nearly every post.

  I do think there is a difference between offering support and being cuddly. Support isn't always about offering a pat on the back, rather (I think) many times it's more about giving someone a safe spot in the storm to open up about a problem and then giving appropriate feedback. More empathy than sympathy. And if there is a shared experience, wisdom painfully learned from past mistakes, and so on, then offering that is part of support as well. As this is a discussion board, I think once you throw something out there, you have to be prepared for whatever comes back and whatever form that takes. I think that's healthy personally.

  So do I Chris. A big difference. The problem is that many posters cannot see the difference between emotional 'support', flippant {{{{{hugs}}}}}, sympathy, trying to impress others, and empowerment. My position, stated numerous times now, is that the amount of 'support' that can be given on an international discussion Board which deals with topics on a single page from favorite receipes to murder and child abuse is very limited indeed. This Board is no substitute for professional help.

  A person might think that posting to an alchoholic, {{{{{{Sorry you fell of the wagon - thinking of you}}}}}} is actually supporting that person, when actually it may be empowering them into further negative behavior.

  A person might feel that laughing at the disloyalty and antics that a seventeen year old kid shows towards the parents who fed and clothed him for years is being {{{{{{supportive}}}}}, but it may actually be empowering them into further negative behavior. As I have also noted, private mail, private contact, and face to face meeting in real life is the beginning of true support, and even then only the beginning.

  A person might feel that {{{{{{{leave your wife}}}}}}}} is supportive when it may actually empower a person to a flawed decision that may bring misery to many other people.

  The term 'support' implies sustained help and effort, not a few smilie faces or a pile of bracketed hugs on a discussion board. Some here are getting dangerously close to the attitude expressed within the WTS elder meetings:

  So Brother Supporter, you were to visist Sister Suicide Attempt to give her help. What happened?"

  Well Brother Sit On Yer Arse, I visited her last Monday suggested that she engage in deeper Bible research and get out on Field Service"

  Well done Brother Supporter, we can now consider her supported. Let us move on now to who is qualified to open and close the windows in the Kingdom hall.

  There now ensues a fifty minute discussion during which it is unanimously agreed that Brother Creepy Sod is indeed qualified to ventilate the Kingdom hall.

  HS
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  37

  Do UFO's exist or is this another Cult?

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  some ufo evidence makes me laugh.

  like the nasa out in space pictures which obviously show space junk floating in the atmosphere....cattle mutilations????

  why would advanced beings repeatedly do this??

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  hillary_step

  JStalin,

  The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us of a giant Motherplane that is made like the universe, spheres within spheres. White people call them unidentified flying objects (UFOs).

  LOL....What a priceless find. It crystalizes everything that is wrong with the human race in one sentence.

  HS
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  115

  How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i got the idea for this thread by talking with a friend this weekend who had been abused by a father when young.

  this person confronted this parent about it and got a very self righteous reply back from the offender.

  already a precedent for exposing the watchtower society has been set.

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  hillary_step

  Finally Free,

  Once again, well said.

  The best 'support' a person can offer, and imo this goes for many issues that are bought to this Board, is informational. Find out names, addresses, reputations, procedures, legalities so that you are a source, not of advice, but information leading to professional advice.

  I have noticed over the years for example, that Blondie, who is herself a survivor, seldom gives advice, but always gives information. One organization that both she and I have had experience with and whom I have found to be extremely helpful and totally professional is SNAP. http://www.snapnetwork.org/ It also has its own discussion forum, specifically and universally established to help primarily with information, but also with the type of help and support that only mutual survivors could give one another.

  Before some well meaning but careless poster brings to my attention that I have noted in the past that the type of emotional support that can be given on a 'discussion forum' is limited to say the least, please re-read what I have written above carefully. Sad to have to make this request, but this seems to be a requirement on JWD in recent months to baby step people through the thinking processes.

  HS
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  97

  Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's obvious right?

  your convictions are supported by and dependant upon your reasoning and evidence.

  what kind of person would choose a conviction first and then hunt around for evidence to support it, all the time ignoring any sound refutation and evidence which countered their cherished belief?.

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  hillary_step

  snowbird,

  I don't give a rat's bummy about Pascal's wager, a priori, empirical, or confirmation bias.

  Why do I hear the sound of Galileo Galilei on trial here?

  HS
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  97

  Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's obvious right?

  your convictions are supported by and dependant upon your reasoning and evidence.

  what kind of person would choose a conviction first and then hunt around for evidence to support it, all the time ignoring any sound refutation and evidence which countered their cherished belief?.

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  hillary_step

  Snowbird,

  The genealogy from Adam to Jesus skips some generations so it's impossible to build a time frame from that.

  The lifespan of Judah, in whose line the Messiah was prophesied to appear, is not even listed.

  I presume that this is the Whitcomb inspired rationale which he used hoping to stretch the pattern of patriarchal geneologies to 10,000 years? Unfortunately, even given the ommissions of the life span of Judah and the ommission of Cainan from Genesis we are talking of a possible discrepancy of scores of years, not thousands.

  Your point however does suggest correctly that the Bible is unreliable when it comes to chronology. Why believers just cannot take it as a book of faith alone puzzles me. It is so obviously flawed as a book of history, science and chronology. Jesus, if he existed, according to Matthew summed up the Old Testament in a simple phrase that suggested that love of God, mankind and ourselves was all that we needed to know. The Sermons On the Mount being a manifesto that few people would complain about.

  Who would criticize the suggestion to 'love your neighbour'? Very few people I would think. Most who have researched the subject would however crticize the Genesis myth.

  HS
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  115

  How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i got the idea for this thread by talking with a friend this weekend who had been abused by a father when young.

  this person confronted this parent about it and got a very self righteous reply back from the offender.

  already a precedent for exposing the watchtower society has been set.

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  hillary_step

  Chris,

  Once again thank you for having the courage to bring to this Board your experiences, both as a survivor of abuse and as a recipient of professional help where recovery is concerned. Frankly, your opinion and those who have similarly suffered and are trying to recover by using professional help are the only opinions that matter on this thread. I also thank you for actually understanding what I wrote to Mr Flipper, why I wrote it, and why I chose the language that I did.

  I wish that posters would actually read posts as carefully as you do and then actually THINK about what has been written before pressing 'enter'. It would certainly save much misunderstanding. We seem to have attracted a plethora of emotionally needy people the past couple of years who write with their hearts and not their brains. A balance of the two makes for a much less tiresome read.

  Mr Flipper,

  Read the thread that Chris wrote and you may understand a little of what many of us are trying to get you to see.

  You have entered an emotional arena, as do many elders, without a clue as to where to walk. If you are not careful, you may cause more damage than you would hope to heal, another common experience with those who have been 'helped' by edlers. I do not apologize for using the analogy of elders in action Flipper, as I firmly believed that you are still swaddled in WTS thinking and that this thinking shines through in many of your 'helpful' posts.

  In my second post to you outlining the differences between a pedophile and a child abuser my language was stronger. The reason why it was is that I explained in detail in my first post the difference, and you ignored the post and continued to refer to '23,000 pedophiles' within the WTS. You need to understand this difference for the sake of those you are trying to 'help'. Ask a professional and they will tell you why!

  How do you know for example:

  1) That the figure of 23,000 pedophiles within the WTS is accurate? (This was already pointed out to you also)

  2) How do you know that, if this number is accurate, that these people were all pedophiles?

  I do not expect you to understand how dangerous it is to bandy around on an international discussion Board, with thousands of 'lurkers' reading, information that is repeatedly posted in ignorance, even when this is pointed out to you. If you cannot see how harmfull THIS is to survivors and those battling to keep their lives together, some who may still be undergoing abuse while they are reading these posts, you should.

  For example, I will point out to you a statement typical of those that you might hear within the WTS, and which are designed to actually put a person off from seeking professional help:

  Not all "professionals" are always helpful either. Many of them have huge egos.

  I am going to call you out on this statement for the sake of those who might wonder about the value of seeking professional help and ask that you now list the 'many'professionals that you know in this arena who have 'huge egos'.

  Your statement is irresponsible and might give you a clue as to why people who see more than that which floats on the surface of an issue have to resort to a 4 x 2 to get their point across. This is a very serious issue and I do not apologize for getting to the heart of it....with my brain!

  HS
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  115

  How Can We Expose Child Abusers - Who Got Away with it as Witnesses ?

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i got the idea for this thread by talking with a friend this weekend who had been abused by a father when young.

  this person confronted this parent about it and got a very self righteous reply back from the offender.

  already a precedent for exposing the watchtower society has been set.

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  hillary_step

  Homerovah,

  To all those people that oppose taking any kind of action of any kind congratulations you just made yourself a good friend to the many accused and unaccused pedophiles strewn across the kingdom halls in the world. I guess social injustice doesn't mean as much to some people as others.......sad really Satan does work in mysterious ways after all

  Mmmmm. I am not sure that you have actually read the posts of those that you criticize with much care. No poster whose comments I have read on this thread 'oppose taking any kind of action'. What they are suggesting is that the matter be left in the hands of the professionals - the police, the therapists, the psychiatrists, the lawyers, the professional counsellors and not in the hands of well meaning bulls in a very fragile china shop. I have known many XJW abuse survivors actually suffer tragically at the hands of amateurs seeking personal glory. The post by Big Tex above should clue you in. So rather than do what the WTS itself does and handle these problems 'in house', contact the authorities. There are numerous departments in every city that are structured to deal with exactly the problems that are being discussed here. Many years ago I was threatened with disfellowshipping by the Branch in a European city when I told them that irregardless of their 'professional' methods, I would contact the authorities regarding a MS who was abusing his daughter. Their threats made no difference to my actions and though this person skipped the country to avoid arrest, not only was an arrest order made, but his daughter gained protection and professional help. This was years ago in the late 70's, before exposing WTS child abusers became the flavor of the month. This was one of a number of experiences that I had dealing with child abuse issues as a JW, the last one being when I saw an elder to a four year sentence for abusing his daughter and her little friend. Each time I was involved in such cases I had to fight the WTS system by using the correct secular system. It was a tough. This is why I find your comments rather shallow . To conclude that a person urging others to go about such matters through the proper channels is uncaring of 'social justice' is actually offensive. HS
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  22

  Evolutionists Creator "Deity" Under Scrutiny

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because of the complexity of the creaton, everyone believes in a "creator".

  creationists believe that this creator is the god of the bible.

  like so many in this book, this argument is new.

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  hillary_step

  Hooberus,

  Evolutionists believe that the creator is a process

  No, they believe that a process is a process and that a creator is a creator.

  HS
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  22

  Evolutionists Creator "Deity" Under Scrutiny

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  because of the complexity of the creaton, everyone believes in a "creator".

  creationists believe that this creator is the god of the bible.

  like so many in this book, this argument is new.

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  hillary_step

  Hooberus,

  While on this subject, do you believe that everything God created was created for a purpose?

  Mosquitoes? VZV? Marburg? Alligators? Barry Manilow?

  HS