Posts by truthlover

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

truthlover

Sorry PD -- left the site for a while

ok - yes - I did miss your question of how did he raise his body...

So I read somewhere that "the spirit goes out, it goes back to the God who gave it".... (Ecc 12:7)so the simplest answer would be that Jesus was no longer in the tomb/ body, but had returned to heaven with his Father upon his expiring.. consequently he was able to raise up that fleshly body - no problem there

Have to disagree on the nature aspect -- the meaning in greek indicates a "kind" now we know that God is a spirit and those who worship him do so in spirit and truth so again, when Jesus was created, he too was a spirit, it had nothing to do with god, as such.. you are speaking of Jesus as being the first creation , being god or a god-- so are you saying that Satan is a god also? since he was made by Jehovah/Yhwh??

and to go a little further, what about the angels, are they not "spirits" sent forth to do Yhwh's will?? They are not gods,but powerful spirit creatures...

"Nature",kind,spirit --

TL

going off again, will check in later

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

truthlover

PD:

well, looking nature up in the Blue Book Bible Ref - "nature" it taken from the greek feminine - -two meanings - "genesis" - "genos" - ref G1078 and G1085 -- meanings 1.-one that follows origin 2. ones lineage where progeny is enumerated 3. course of life, descent 4. same kind or nation - Is this what you want?

In that respect it appears of course, since God/Lord created Jesus, Jesus would have to be the same type as his creator.. after all, our children are the same "type" as we are - human, spirit is spirit, and he did "leave what he was" behind when he came to earth as a human.. - I say spirit ---an individual spiritual entity-- working together with God in a single purpose...

Next thought: Psalms and the Creed

Taken from the New Testament - a lot of years between Psalms and Matthew - and then we have Jesus,Paul,James, Luke, etc words on the subject--

-- just finished looking up sooo many references as to where Jesus is residing now that he is back in the heavens -- taken from the New American Bible - 17 scriptures - repetition for emphasis maybe! - that states Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God and the kicker being when Jesus answered the question about the two sons of Zebedee who wanted to sit on his left and right hand in the kigdom ---- Jesus said - this decision was not his to give but the Father has prepared their place in the kingdom... taking the decision out of Jesus' hands.. Matt 20:23... If Jesus and God were one - there would be an agreement on this issue and Jesus would have said, ok they can have those positions... yet he deferred it to his Father...

Need for mediator:

Another good scripture - deals with a mediator.. why do we need a mediator to plead our case if Jesus and Jehovah/YHWH are the same? John 16:23,24,26

113

More Society cutbacks - Society says "screw you" to the publishers yet again

by sir82 in

jw
friends

at our service meeting it was announced that there is a change in the manner in which magazines are now to be delivered to the congregations.. up until now, magazines were sent to each kingdom hall via ups.

in years past magazines were sent to each congregation po's home address via ups.. going forward, magazines will be sent only as far as the assembly hall.

it is the responsibility of each kingdom hall to send brother(s) twice a month to drive out there, pick up the magazines, and return.. this of course saves a little bit of money for the society - shipping larger packages to fewer addresses will cost less.. however, what about the expense to the local congregations?.

truthlover

Here, a sister drives for an hour to pick up the mags, books, etc.. for nine congregations - she has a van -- she delivers to 7 and then two members from the remaining two congs will drive in to the last drop and pick theirs up.. or if there is a JW trucking comp in the area, they load the remaining two and drop it at another specific point.. Always been done that way and she is paid gor her gas, etc. by each cong..

Now I think its twice a month only

34

Question for Billy The Ex-Bethelite and others who had forgone college sometime ago.

by garyneal in

jw
friends

i was talking with my wife today about college and i asked her about why the society makes such a big deal about witnesses not going to college.

in typical dub fashion, my wife tells me that they do not discourage college, but they do not encourage it either.

instead, they encourage placing kingdom interests first.. now i told her about you (billy) and how you were at bethel and are now starting college at the age of 40 (i think that is correct).

truthlover

recently, a talk off the platform stated that kids should get their twelve and then take a course at community college - 1 - 2 years... kids are usually at home when taking these courses and still would be going to the hall to get their spiritual food and of course, be watched as to association....

It was mentioned to take a regular 4 - 6 year college course was not in their best spiritual interest

Of course, if a kid is taking a regular college class and not living at home, thats a different story,but a kid at home can cause his/her dad to lose their position if a regular college course is taken..

457

TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped in

trinity challenge using only the new world translation of the holy scriptures -- let us debate and reason on the scriptures about whether god almighty is a trinity, or is only one person.. on another thread, bane said that we know for a fact immediately that nearly all religions other than jehovah's witnesses are false because almost all of them believe in the trinity.

and bane claims he can "out-scripturize" anyone with the help of jehovah.

* the son was praying to the father.

truthlover

Just a thought -- Jude was Jesus' half brother, also a brother of James - living, eating, sleeping, listening to Jesus' wisdom ....yet neither one indicated that God and Jesus were one - they were slaves of Jesus and gave proper respect to God, not indicating they were the same.. so if they didnt know it, how do we?

There are so many scriptures disputing the issue of the trinity, it doesnt make sense that the Bible writers were under a dark cloud of misunderstanding about the subject..

there is a captain of a ship i.e. YhWh, Jehovah, God who said "there is no God but me" and Jesus, God's next in command (remember Christ is the head of man scripture -- all things in harmony???) who perfects all things and hands it back to God His Father... as he so often called Yhwh,Jehovah... you cant hand something back to yourself, can you?

And.. out of the Living Bible pg 865- Acts 3:13 Peter expressly says" For it is the God of Abraham,( who is YHWH) Isaac,Jacob and of all out ancestors who has brought glory to his servant,Jesus.........you killed the author of Life but God brought him back to life again, and John and I are witnesses of this fact. So did God resurrect himself??

To say we can't or don't understand the spiritual realm is one thing, but this seems fairly clear -

Another question, do all those who come to know Christ belong to the "trinity"(for those who believe same)? Wouldn't that make the word trinity of no account? There would be God, Jesus, holy spirit, people,people,people... remember, for those who are not of the RC faith - this belief began with the church, way back about 300 AD--- who claimed to be inspired of God and still do today.. who is right and who is wrong..according to scripture? Walking a fine line - I choose to believe there is God - head of all, Jesus, his son and the spirit who gets things done--

10

What is it like to be an elder???

by confliction in

jw
friends

i'm not 18 yet, so i've never had the chance to become one (thank god), but what kind of things do you learn as an elder that are... different from being a regular jw or basically someone without "priveleges"?.

.

for example, what stuff do you hear, what books do you get, what kind of things did you see, etc..

truthlover

Designs prefaced it correctly - if you are doing it right----- the majority today are not doing it right based on personal experience and comments on the board.. if they were doing it right, they would have called on folks who appeared to be having problems, doubts, family issues, and even when asked to help, either no meetings were held for the people in stress, or were conveniently cancelled and never re booked, hence people are upset and know that if their spirituality is not important to the elders, then maybe its not important at all.

I personally know of a recent case - a whole family -- just walked away, doing nothing out of line with the scriptures - family people, working hard, reads Bible to get spiritual help and guidance still who had never had any help at all, and when the few elders did call to visit, it was under suspicion that it was for a df... therefore, they refused visits, not wanting to be on the outside right away - its now been over a year --I would suspect they will be getting df in abstentia as a few cong R/F are saying they are apostate - from whom?? That word has ugly connotations in the org..

SoWhat is it like to be an elder? Depends on how good you want to do the job and that involves a lot of time and stress, especially after 40+ work week, kids at home, wife, bills to pay and then the heaping amount of work the society gets for free to run a congregation that when the Co visits, doesnt have the time of day for issues that would give you strength to carry on spiritually... I think I have covered most of it

TL

32

2010 drama: historicity of Christians leaving Jerusalem between Roman wars

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

sorry if this has already been discussed, i haven't been around here a lot and i have this question for any history buffs.. this summer's dc is a fictionalized account of first century jehovah's witnesses (gag), leaving jerusalem right after the first attack by rome and fleeing to pella.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/194498/1/drama-audio-only.

other than jesus "this generation" prophecy, the bible mentions nothing directly about this.

even john, who wrote his gospel and letters afterward, makes no hint of events in jerusalem during that era.

truthlover

an 8 year old said" its not a true story, its just made up" --- out of the mouths of babes!

13

Is all religion based on male power?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

something in the news, i think, about women clergy got me thinking that all religion, particularly in the past, has been based on man's superiority over women.

i, for one, wouldn't want to join any religion in which i was second class to penis less people.. i was after all made in god's image whereas women were not.. .

i can't help but think that religion has been a great force for perpetuating sexual discrimination.. .

truthlover

JW:
Good point- again, they had to fight an uphill battle to get recognized for their spitirual endeavours

13

Is all religion based on male power?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

something in the news, i think, about women clergy got me thinking that all religion, particularly in the past, has been based on man's superiority over women.

i, for one, wouldn't want to join any religion in which i was second class to penis less people.. i was after all made in god's image whereas women were not.. .

i can't help but think that religion has been a great force for perpetuating sexual discrimination.. .

truthlover

When Adam was created, Eve was created as a complement - this could mean that Adam was deficient in some way and Eve made up for that deficiency -- she was not a compliment.....two different meanings

TC:

also -= when God made "man" in His image, the reference is to Mankind as a whole for if you read further in same verse - its says that - in God's image, He created THEM- male and female, he created them....

Ynot: your right -- it was only After Eden that women would be dominated by a man, knowing this, a man is not to be abusive, and is to regard his wife as something precious, as he would not harm himself, so to he would not harm his wife.

but this did not stop God from recognizing Sarah, Ruth,the daughters of Zelophehad, Deborah - a prophetess and leader in Israel ...and knowing that God is not partial also helps.. Jesus definitely recognized their importance - the Samaritan woman at the well, Mary's, mostly it was women who stayed with Jesus, he appeared to them after his resurrection.. or so says Matt 28:5,8,9, women went to Jesus tomb -Mark 16:1,2 and Luke 24:10, Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene at John 20:12-16 - Jesus chose those who rule in heaven from those early men and women so he has no prejudice either..

Breaking it down, - looks like men who kept women in a slave's condition from early biblical times continued on to the 1900's when women got the vote -- since then some religions have recognized women in the lead, but still mostly, of all the 10,000 + religions - men dominate

17

The longest prayer ever done scenario

by asilentone in

what if a deaf brother sign the longest prayer ever recorded like one hour or two hours, do you think the audience will disappear before he signs amen?

.

truthlover

MS:

Mine isnt exaggerated -- and I have witnesses (pun intended)