Posts by hooberus

39

Evolution in Action: Birth of New Species Witnessed by Scientists

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

what more do the creationists want?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/11/speciation-in-action/.

on one of the galapagos islands whose finches shaped the theories of a young charles darwin, biologists have witnessed that elusive moment when a single species splits in two.. in many ways, the split followed predictable patterns, requiring a hybrid newcomer whod already taken baby steps down a new evolutionary path.

hooberus

It doesn't matter how much evidence we can show them, some people are just to thick to get (or accept) the fact of evolution. It's great to post this information for those with an open mind,

Didn't you know that virtualy all informed creationists and creationist organizations accept the "fact" of the type of the observed speciation mentioned in the OP article?

but it's a waste of time trying to debate the hard-core creationists with their closed little minds.

But according to the materialist evolutionists our thoughts are the pre-determined products of brain chemistry responding (according to the laws of chemistry) to external stimuli. Hence, we have no free-will to open our minds any more than the atheists do. As the prominent materialist evolutionist Provine said:

‘Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear … There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.’

Provine, W.B., Origins Research16(1), p.9, 1994.

39

Evolution in Action: Birth of New Species Witnessed by Scientists

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

what more do the creationists want?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/11/speciation-in-action/.

on one of the galapagos islands whose finches shaped the theories of a young charles darwin, biologists have witnessed that elusive moment when a single species splits in two.. in many ways, the split followed predictable patterns, requiring a hybrid newcomer whod already taken baby steps down a new evolutionary path.

hooberus

What more do the creationists want?

"Poorly-informed anti-creationist scoffers occasionally think they will ‘floor’ creation apologists with examples of ‘new species forming’ in nature. They are often surprised at the reaction they get from the better-informed creationists, namely that the creation model depends heavily on speciation . . . ." http://creation.com/speciation-conference-brings-good-news-for-creationists

44

Evolutionists - please help!

by Georgiegirl in

ok. (taking deep breath) i am finally at that point in my recovery where i am ready to look at evolution as more than a loose theory which is clearly disprovable by the fact that all the bones proving it could be in a coffin.

or, um, some illustration like that.. i feel like first i have to "unlearn" the jw teaching of evolution to learn what "real" evolution is.

then, learn about that and then see how i feel.

hooberus

Here is a relatively easy to understand book that demonstrates, from prominent evolutionary literature, a type of "evolution" (devolution).

Genetic entropy and the Mystery of the Human Genome

"Dr. Sanford’s popular book explores the limitations of evolution’s primary axiom. This axiom is the evolutionary change (i.e., common descent) is accomplished by a combination of natural selection and random mutations. Using modern genetics research, the former Cornell University scientist provides several challenges to this axiom. Organisms, including humans, are declining in health, not evolving to more advanced stages of evolution. This newest edition contains the addition of a glossary, index, and author’s notes."

available from www.creationresearch.org

58

Jehovah created Jesus? Jesus is "a god" and "mighty god"? Consider these...

by Chalam in

good to see all the thread on jesus recently :).

10 "you are my witnesses," declares the lord, .

"and my servant whom i have chosen, .

hooberus

h

hooberus,

I know enough that there are many Trinitarians who say (believe) like you.

But my opinion is that it is not the correct Trinity doctrine.

And what the Watch Tower society is attacking is the Trinity doctrine which people like you believe.

Only sometimes does the WT Society correctly present the orthodox Trinity doctrine. Often what they present it as being is "three Gods in one person" rather than the correct "one God in three persons". After setting up their straw man, they then point to verses that teach only one God, and/or verses that show that the Fatrher and Son as distict persons, and then claim that these are somehow inconsistent with orthodox trinitarianism (which they aren't). Though of course they are inconsistent with the false "three Gods in one person" strawman.

58

Jehovah created Jesus? Jesus is "a god" and "mighty god"? Consider these...

by Chalam in

good to see all the thread on jesus recently :).

10 "you are my witnesses," declares the lord, .

"and my servant whom i have chosen, .

hooberus

It is the true Trinity doctrine that Jesus is not Jehovah.

Says who?

I am a Trinitarian. Trinitarian books affirm that all three persons are Jehovah.

24

How ANTI-CREATIONISTS MISREPRESENT the Argument from Complex Design

by hooberus in

formally and explicitly stated the argument from design is written such as:.

) complexity defined specifically and 2.

hooberus

Yeah, but he ignored everything that was said.

I showed that even if the designer themself must be included under the the ID definition of "complexity" [which I disagree], that the fact remains that the design statement in the O.P. still does not require an infinite regression of designers.

Furthermore, I demonstrated that even anti-creationists already accept intelligent design as logicallly valid science in other instances. As I pointed out in the first post: "To use an analogy the origin of the multiple componet complexity of a sophisticated "watch like device" if found on Mars would be taken as strong evidence of being the result of an intelligent designer, rather than as the result of natural processes. (In this case no one-not even anti-creationists would object to complexity as evidence for design)." So then how can they turn around and then claim that the argument for a designer from complex design is somehow necessarily illogical?

24

How ANTI-CREATIONISTS MISREPRESENT the Argument from Complex Design

by hooberus in

formally and explicitly stated the argument from design is written such as:.

) complexity defined specifically and 2.

hooberus

By your reasoning, could you deny this scenario: We were created by an intelligent race of aliens who pop in and out of new universes across the multiverse, so they aren't tied to starting points in time like the Big Bang. As far as they tell us, they have always been like the quantum foam. They are the Greys. Stay Awake.

Midget, Do you accept the following brief reasoning: "the origin of the complexity from non-complexity of the computer that midget-sasquatch is typing on is best explained as the result of intelligent design, rather than as the result non-intelligently guided natural processes".? Does it initself specifically deny your above strange scenario?

24

How ANTI-CREATIONISTS MISREPRESENT the Argument from Complex Design

by hooberus in

formally and explicitly stated the argument from design is written such as:.

) complexity defined specifically and 2.

hooberus

The main purpose of this thread is to show that the argument (from observed complexity) for the necessity of an intelligent designer if properly stated need not also necessarily require any logical problem- such as an inifinite regression. Before digressing more into the issue of what is meant specifically by "complexity", it needs to be pointed out that even if an intelligent desginer itself had to also be complex [which I don't nesessarily accept], the fact remains that the initial ID statement given in the OP here would still not necessarilry also require the designer to themself have a designer. This is due to the fact that the statement in the OP is referring only to complexity that has an origin being best explained as the result of a designer rather that as the result of natural processes. "The origin of complexity from non-complexity is best explained as the result of an intelligent designer, rather than as the result non-intelligently guided natural processes". Given that there is nothing in the above statement that also requires the desginer to themself have an origin, there is no requirement in the above for them to also have a designer themself. This is true even if the designer were also defined as being complex.

It also needs to be remembered that even anti-creationists already accept intelligent design as logicallly valid science in other instances. As I pointed out in the first post: "To use an analogy the origin of the multiple componet complexity of a sophisticated "watch like device" if found on Mars would be taken as strong evidence of being the result of an intelligent designer, rather than as the result of natural processes. (In this case no one-not even anti-creationists would object to complexity as evidence for design)." So then how can they turn around and then claim that the arguemt for a designer from complex design is somehow necessarily illogical?

24

How ANTI-CREATIONISTS MISREPRESENT the Argument from Complex Design

by hooberus in

formally and explicitly stated the argument from design is written such as:.

) complexity defined specifically and 2.

hooberus

Formally and explicitly stated the argument from design is written such as:

"The origin of complexity* [see below for definition] from non-complexity is best explained as the result of an intelligent designer, rather than as the result non-intelligently guided natural processes".

*complexity defined for example as complex systems composed of multiple componet parts or complexity defined as organized specified complexity.

Note that the above argument is dealing with 1.) complexity defined specifically and 2.) with complexity that has an origin from non-complexity. To use an analogy the origin of the multiple componet complexity of a sophisticated "watch like device" if found on Mars would be taken as strong evidence of being the result of an intelligent designer, rather than as the result of natural processes. (In this case no one-not even anti-creationists would object to complexity as evidence for design).

However, when it comes to complex biological systems anti-creationists protest and claim that the argument from design is somehow illogical, requiring an infinite regression of designers, or other logical fallacies. Their argument for example is that: "If complexity requires and intelligent designer then the intelligent designer must himself have required a designer, and his intelligent designer a designer, etc, etc, !!"

In order to do this though they do they omit the fact that the design argument is explicitly or implicitly dealing with 1.) complexity defined specifically and 2.) with complexity that has an origin. Their method is to automatically define all types of intelligent designers as "complexity"; and then to also ignore the fact that the design argument is dealing specifically with complexity that has an origin, and not any other.

By doing these things they twist a logically valid argument from design into a strawman requiring an illogical conclusion.

8

Evolution explained

by rebel8 in

difference between scientific laws, hypotheses, and theories: http://wilstar.com/theories.htm.

hypothesis: this is an educated guess based upon observation.

it is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved.

hooberus

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php

Myth: "Evolution is a theory about the origin of life."

Response: "Evolutionary theory deals mainly with how life changed after its origin. Science does try to investigate how life started (e.g., whether or not it happened near a deep-sea vent, which organic molecules came first, etc.), but these considerations are not the central focus of evolutionary theory. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes." From another page of the same site:

From another page on the same site:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/origsoflife_01

"Evolution encompasses a wide range of phenomena: from the emergence of major lineages, to mass extinctions, to the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria in hospitals today. However, within the field of evolutionary biology, the origin of life is of special interest because it addresses the fundamental question of where we (and all living things) came from."

This illustrates well the tactics evolutionists use on this particular issue. In response to creationist arguments on the particular issue of the origin of life (such ashttp://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/36/36_4/abiogenesis.html ) evolutionists frequently resond with statements similar the first above [though normally more dogmatic]. However, to the public (and especially students) they continue promote alleged "positive" evidence for the origin of life as part of the evolutionary version of history, that they desire other to believe.