hooberus

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Posts by hooberus

• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Let’s not forget that Cofty has the burden of proof here (though he tries to shift it).

  Furthermore he has not shown that naturalistic processes can even overcome the hurdle of likely obtaining even a single Cytochrome C molecule. See my post on page 24 of this thread.

  Probability Problem

  
  

  For those who wanted sources:
  What Cofty said:
  "The number of possible amino acid sequences that would result in a functional Cytochrome C protein molecule has been calculated to be a billion times larger than all the atoms in the known universe."
  The source:
  Yockey, H. P. (1992) Information Theory and Molecular Biology. New York, Cambridge University Press.

  The number of different possible functional versions of cyctochrome c sequences calculted by Yockey is staggering (2.3 x 10 ^93 ).

  However, Yockeys calculations also show that when compared to the number of random possible sequences of the same length as cyctochrome c (110 amino acid length = 1.15 x 10^137 possible sequences) that functional cyctochrome c sequences are exceedingly rare.

  The odds of obtaining even one of these by chance is 2.0 x 10 -44
  

  Has any evolutionist demonstrated enough likely trials and time available on the Earth to likely obtain one functional cytochrome c sequence?

  If naturalistic processes cannot reasonably generate Cytochrome C, then they cannot generate a pattern of it.
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Do you understand the gulf between prokaryotes and eukaryotes? I have explained the evolutionary link between the two on a previous thread. The topic of this one is ubiquitous proteins in eukaryotes.

  Where does it say specifically in the O.P. that this thread is only about eukaryotes?

  Nowhere.

  Instead, we read the phrases:

  ”Some proteins are so vital to life that they are shared by every living thing.These are coded by bits of genetic code that are called ubiquitous genes. An example of such a gene is Cytochrome C . . .”

  “If all living things evolved from a common ancestor then we can make a prediction about the differences between the Cytochrome C protein in different species.”

  Now you object that the thread is not necessarily about every living thing. - And the fact that bacteria are living things with Cytochrome C is somehow ‘off the table’ —since they aren’t eukaryotes!

  What a poster you are!
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Cofty, I also would like to remind you that you started this thread not merely claiming ‘evidence for evolution,’ but instead that “Evolution is a Fact” and that Cytochrome C sequence data proves this.

  Therefore, the burden of proof rests upon you.
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Bacteria don't have mitochondria!
  We are talking about comparison between cytochrome C amino acid and nucleotide sequences in eukaryotes not eukaryotes and prokaryotes..

  Bacteria don’t have mitochondria? So what? Who said that they did?

  They are living things and have Cytochrome C. That makes them revelant here.

  On another thread you wrote: “Every living thing descended from a common ancestor over millions of years. This is the central fact that the theory of evolution explains.”

  Obviously that includes bacteria. So they are relevant to this discussion.

  As a matter of fact evolutionists claim (or have anyway) that everything else descended from bacteria (that includes eukaryotes).

  Your whole ‘objection’ here is illustrative that you are the type of poster that tries to ‘challenge’ everything.
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Yeast, insect, a fish, a bird, and a mammal all have approximately the same number of Cytochrome C differences relative to a bacteria. Is there a pre-existing evolutionary publication predicting this?

  You claim:

  ”Comparison of Cytochrome C sequences PRECISELY confirms the evolutionary history of all species, from humans to yeast, EXACTLY as predicted by pre-existing models.”

  
  
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  
  
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Yeast, insect, a fish, a bird, and a mammal all have approximately the same number of Cytochrome C differences relative to a bacteria. Is there a pre-existing evolutionary publication predicting this?

  My chart would not upload correctly. I will try to post one to illustrate.
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  
  

  Comparison of Cytochrome C sequences PRECISELY confirms the evolutionary history of all species, from humans to yeast, EXACTLY as predicted by pre-existing models.
  

  Biochemical sequence data from a chart in Denton’s book compiled from Dayhoff shows that when compared to bacteria that yeast , wheat, a silk moth, tuna, pigeon, and horse are all virtually the same distance when it comes to Cytochrome C
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  Earlier I brought up two general points in a response.

  1. The assertion by evolutionists that a creator would not have created life the way that it exists.

  2. The assertion by evolutionists that evolution makes specific predictions about life, and that these predictions are fulfilled.

  My previous recent posts dealt with point number 1. Since there is no specific response (other than a dismissive comment) I will move on to the other assertion.
• 
  291

  Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

  there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

  there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  hooberus

  In 1993 Walter ReMine published an important work titled “The Biotic Message” in which he introduced “Message Theory”.

  The basics of Message Theory is that:

  1. Life was created to show that it was the work of a single designer.

  2. Life was also designed to resist all other explanations.

  ReMine focuses on life’s overall pattern of theme and variation and why a creator would choose to use it to unite life as the work of one designer (and to resist other explanations including multiple designers acting independently and numerous evolutionary scenarios).

  A pattern of theme and variation is used to identify unknown works of art as the product of a single artist.