They read a verse in Romans chapter 8 during the memorial about how the "anointed" truly know they are such.
However, when this chapter is examined contextually, there was no question about heavenly or earthly life in Paul's discussion but simply whether one was living by Gods spirit and belonged to Christ or was instead living according to sinful flesh. Living by spirit produces fruitage of Gods spirit, one not doing so is at enmity with God. Then in verse 14 he says:
"For all who are led by God's spirit, these are God's sons"
Not some, but "ALL who are lead by God's spirit" are his sons, his children.
I discussed this recently with a friend of mine and it got him thinking...could it be that there are not two groups but that the words from Matthew to Revelation apply to us as Christians, not by extension but directly??
Slowly chipping away at my friends folks, helping them see the WTS deviation from the scriptures...
LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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The Official What happened at the Memorial thread
by truthseeker ini thought rather than everyone start their own topic relating their experience of attending the memorial, we keep it simple and have just one thread.
if anything, it's saves bandwidth.. i will be going to the memorial tonight and will post my experiences afterwards.. all the other memorials i attended, i was an active jw, so this will be my first experience as a submarine witness.
it's weird being on the other side so to speak.
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LUKEWARM
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Special Bible talk entitled: IS THERE A TRUE RELIGION FROM GODS STANDPOINT? - Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you on Sunday, April 26, 2009
by LUKEWARM inthe latest instalment is coming to convince everybody that there is only one channel - one god approved religion!.
so folks, what arguments do you think the wts will use to "prove" that there is a true religion from god's standpoint?.
lukewarm.
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LUKEWARM
Excellent - thanks for posting the outline Tired of the Hypocrisy!
They have really dumbed this down to the point where there is not much substance to the presentation - here are some of my observations...
Rather than teaching that all religion is acceptable to God, the Bible clearly speaks of worship that is not approved by him (Jg 10:6, 7; Mr 7:6, 7; 1Co 10:20;rs 322-323)
(Mark 7:6-7) . . .He said to them: "Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honor me with [their] lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 7 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.'
Can they not see that they "teach as doctrines commands of men" and that their worship is in "vain"?The Scriptures show that some worship is futile but that there is a form of worship that God approves [Read James 1:26, 27](James 1:26, 27) If any man seems to himself to be a formal worshiper and yet does not bridle his tongue, but goes on deceiving his own heart, this man's form of worship is futile. 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world
How are they applying the charity work James emphasised?God places great importance on how people treat one anotherJust lip service - every JW knows that obedience to WTS is more important than any human kindnessLeading a godly life is linked to having an accurate knowledge of God (Tit 1:1) [Read Colossians 3:10]Do JW's have accurate knowledge?*** w90 9/15 p. 17 par. 6 Bless Jehovah's Holy Name! **
We should also zealously make known the glory of God's kingship. Zeal for such Kingdom service surely was evident when, in 1922, J. F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, addressed conventioners at Cedar Point, Ohio, and said: "Since 1914 the King of glory has taken his power . . . The kingdom of heaven is at hand; the King reigns; Satan's empire is falling; millions now living will never die. Do you believe it?
***g94 8/11 p. 10***
As indicated on page 4, "this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." This time of the end is, however, to be a relatively short period-stretching over one generation. (Luke 21:31, 32) The fact that we are now 80 years beyond 1914 indicates that we can soon expect the deliverance that God's Kingdom will bring. This means that we will see "the lowliest one of mankind"-Jesus Christ-take complete control of "the kingdom of mankind" and bring about a peaceful and just new world.-Daniel 4:17.
***w76 5/15 p298***
It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating - 'wishy-washy' - about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgement of such persons?Hence, true religion from God's standpoint must be based on the truth as found in the Holy Scriptures (Joh 8:32; 17:17)
Why do they continually go beyond the things written then? Incredible how the whole Bible has a secondary/greater fulfilment in some way and reflects JW events after 1919!True religion will produce people who do God's will and reflect the wisdom from above [Read James 3:17, 18]
Wonder how they will apply this scripture and how is it that only JW's reflect the "wisdom from above"?
It must guide people in the way of love (Joh 13:34, 35; 1Jo 3:10)
In what practical way do JW's show love for non JW's??
***w90 12/1 p19*** We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah's visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47)
People who practice religion that is true from God's standpoint exalt God's name and preach about his Kingdom (Ps 83:18; Mt 24:14)Do they even know what Gods name is exactly?
*** it-2 p. 5 Jehovah ***
Correct Pronunciation of the Divine Name. "Jehovah" is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although "Yahweh" is favored by most Hebrew scholars. The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek te·tra-, meaning "four," and gram′ma, "letter"). These four letters (written from right to left) are ???? and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).
Are they preaching the same good news Jesus did?
***w67 12/15 p. 753***
What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God's Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914
They are readily identifiable by their works of faith
What works of faith specifically?
True religion encourages everyone to examine the Scriptures and prove to themselves the perfect will of God (Ro 12:2)
Really?*** km 9/07 p. 3 Question Box ***
Does "the faithful and discreet slave" endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?-Matt. 24:45, 47.
No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the NewWorldTranslation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature. Throughout the earth, Jehovah's people are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of Jehovah's organization. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God's people may be "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain "stabilized in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah's spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight.-Matt. 24:45-47.This can be done by learning what the Bible teaches (Joh 17:3)
Learning how?
***w81 12/1 p.27
But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we doAllow the Bible's teachings to produce good fruitage in you (1Th 2:13)
Only JW's produce "good fruitage" or are all Christians who endeavour to follow Christ's example doing so?
Examine the evidence for yourself, and practice "the form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father""Examine the evidence" with the view of convincing yourself that:
***w89 9/1 p.19***
Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. -
27
Special Bible talk entitled: IS THERE A TRUE RELIGION FROM GODS STANDPOINT? - Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you on Sunday, April 26, 2009
by LUKEWARM inthe latest instalment is coming to convince everybody that there is only one channel - one god approved religion!.
so folks, what arguments do you think the wts will use to "prove" that there is a true religion from god's standpoint?.
lukewarm.
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LUKEWARM
Really - Can you point me in the direction of the thread - would love to see it...
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27
Special Bible talk entitled: IS THERE A TRUE RELIGION FROM GODS STANDPOINT? - Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you on Sunday, April 26, 2009
by LUKEWARM inthe latest instalment is coming to convince everybody that there is only one channel - one god approved religion!.
so folks, what arguments do you think the wts will use to "prove" that there is a true religion from god's standpoint?.
lukewarm.
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LUKEWARM
The latest instalment is coming to convince everybody that there is only one channel - one God approved religion!
So folks, what arguments do you think the WTS will use to "prove" that there is A TRUE RELIGION FROM GOD'S STANDPOINT?
Lukewarm -
91
The Official What happened at the Memorial thread
by truthseeker ini thought rather than everyone start their own topic relating their experience of attending the memorial, we keep it simple and have just one thread.
if anything, it's saves bandwidth.. i will be going to the memorial tonight and will post my experiences afterwards.. all the other memorials i attended, i was an active jw, so this will be my first experience as a submarine witness.
it's weird being on the other side so to speak.
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LUKEWARM
Don't have the letter - should have asked the chairman to see it after the program...
Anyone else feel that the letter sounded quite desperate? -
91
The Official What happened at the Memorial thread
by truthseeker ini thought rather than everyone start their own topic relating their experience of attending the memorial, we keep it simple and have just one thread.
if anything, it's saves bandwidth.. i will be going to the memorial tonight and will post my experiences afterwards.. all the other memorials i attended, i was an active jw, so this will be my first experience as a submarine witness.
it's weird being on the other side so to speak.
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LUKEWARM
Not sure it was the same as last year, but I was embarrassed by its lack of tact!
Surely 'the boys in writing' could have made it more neutral and inviting for the Christians who attended instead of pushing the "Gods Organization" line... -
91
The Official What happened at the Memorial thread
by truthseeker ini thought rather than everyone start their own topic relating their experience of attending the memorial, we keep it simple and have just one thread.
if anything, it's saves bandwidth.. i will be going to the memorial tonight and will post my experiences afterwards.. all the other memorials i attended, i was an active jw, so this will be my first experience as a submarine witness.
it's weird being on the other side so to speak.
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LUKEWARM
What was with the letter they read out at the end - it sounded so desperate and like they were begging for followers. Anyone else notice that?
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Special Post: 1 year anniversary on JWN - My intro finally posted
by Awakened at Gilead ini came on jwd a year ago tomorrow, having realized that jws were not the truth, quite painfully, on march 29, 2008. i was here within a week, and within 2 months i was officially dad by my congregation.. ever since joining, i have never actually wrote down a comprehensive look at why i left the organization.
what doubts caused me to leave?
why did a gilead grad leave what i once considered so precious?.
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LUKEWARM
Wow, did not realise this was taught at Gillead - do you have some of the textbooks used for this?
It turned out that every event in the Hebrew Scriptures was just a foreshadowing of the modern day history of the Watchtower organization. Job's comforters? False religionists attacking the anointed. The 10 plagues? This occurred to show how the work that Jehovah's people did since 1914 caused plagues to occur ion modern day Egypt (the world) in a spiritual sense. Noah and his unnamed wife? Jesus and the anointed remnant. Samson? The anointed remnant. Elijah? The anointed in the time of Russell / Rutherford. Elisha? The anointed in the time of Knorr since 1942. Isaiah? The anointed. Jeremiah? The anointed. Daniel? The anointed. Behemoth? God's organization. Leviathan? Satan's evil organization. Israelites leaving Egypt? The anointed. Vast mixed company? The great crowd. Get the picture?Incredible how the whole Bible has a secondary fulfilment and reflects something greater especially the JW events after 1919!Loved this bit
If Jehovah's Witnesses based their entire belief system on the Bible, and nothing else, then wouldn't it be easier to preach to those who had an intimate knowledge of the Bible? Would they be more attracted to the "truth"? Unless, the thought came to me again, that perhaps we didn't have the truth after all. Thanks 4 posting your story -
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Long time lurker, 1st time poster
by Mattieu inwell where do i start, perhaps will go into more detail later, though briefly - 40 years young, raised in the truth (kingdom baby, which meant i was never going to make it to primary/secondary school/work/get married/have kids....) former ms, regular pioneer, learnt 3 foreign languages, served in foreign language group, married (wife still goes to meetings), beautiful kids, baptised at 15 years of age, regular pioneer at 15, grew up in divided house.. .
hmmm, will go into my issues with all things organisational later, though firstly want to apologise, for being a self righteous spiritual pratt who did things by the book and sat with other elders/mss and prejudged others for not doing enough and having a wrong attitude about all matters spiritual and organisational.
i stepped down as an ms over a year ago (they were grooming me to be an elder), havent been to a meeting in 3 months, i knew it wasnt the truth for a number of years and have struggled badly the last few years.
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LUKEWARM
Welcome Mattieu!
Great read and you have done well to have wife and mother in law on the same wavelength. Tell us more about what worked in your case to get them to think and question matters....
Looking forward to hearing more from you
Lukewarm -
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Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 6 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in" (1 corinthians 5:11-13).
(a) why is the disfellowshipping arrangement a loving one?
20 the disfellowshipping arrangement is really a loving provision from jehovah.
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LUKEWARM
Well said FT09 and welcome to the board!
Was sad to read your experience - you have been through a lot and I will look forward to reading your story one day.
The WTS are masters at twisting scriptures and "lording it over" peoples lives.
Hang in there!
Lukewarm