LUKEWARM
JoinedPosts by LUKEWARM
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What is the WTS financial position?
by Roddy ini know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.
pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.
how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.
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Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 20 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
4 pp.
"honor men of all sorts.
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LUKEWARM
oops - somehow this has been duplicated and am unsure how to delete one of them...
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Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 20 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
4 pp.
"honor men of all sorts.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv chap. 4 pp. 36-41 Why Respect Authority? ***Why Respect Authority?"Honor men of all sorts."-1 PETER 2:17.1, 2. (a) What struggle do we face when it comes to authority? (b) What questions will we consider?HAVE you ever watched a small child react when he is asked to do something he really does not want to do? You may see quite a conflict written plainly on that little boy's face. He hears his parent's voice, and he knows that he is supposed to respect his parent's authority. But in this case, he just does not want to obey. His struggle illustrates a truth we all face.
How is this a valid illustration given that the child lacks the maturity of an adult in making sound decisions?
2 Respect for authority does not always come easily to us. Do you sometimes find it difficult to respect those who have a measure of authority over you? If so, you are not alone in this struggle. We live at a time when respect for authority seems to be at an all-time low. Yet, the Bible says that we need to show respect for those who hold positions of authority over us. (Proverbs 24:21) In fact, doing so is essential if we want to remain in God's love. Naturally, then, some questions arise. Why can it be so difficult for us to respect authority? Why does Jehovah ask this of us, and what will help us to comply? Finally, in what ways can we show respect for authority?Proverbs 24:12 "My son, fear Jehovah and the king. With those who are for a change, do not intermeddleHow does Proverbs show "that we need to show respect for those who hold positions of authority over us" given that it refers to the Davidic kings - unless the WTS think that they are the "king" or royalty spoken of here...
WHY IT IS A CHALLENGE3, 4. How did sin and imperfection begin, and why does our sinful nature make it a challenge for us to respect authority?3 Let us briefly consider two reasons why it can be such a challenge for us to show respect for those in authority. First, imperfection afflicts us; second, it afflicts those humans in authority over us. Human sin and imperfection got their start a long time ago, back in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve rebelled against God's authority. So sin began with rebellion. To this day, we have an inborn tendency to rebel.-Genesis 2:15-17; 3:1-7; Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12.
4 Because of our sinful nature, pride and haughtiness arise easily in most of us, whereas humility is a rare quality that we need to work hard to cultivate and maintain. Even after years of faithful service to God, we may give in to stubbornness and pride. For example, consider Korah, who faithfully stuck with Jehovah's people through many hardships. Still, he craved more authority and brazenly led a rebellion against Moses, the meekest man alive at that time. (Numbers 12:3; 16:1-3) Think, too, of King Uzziah, whose pride led him to enter Jehovah's temple and carry out a sacred duty reserved for the priests. (2 Chronicles 26:16-21) Such men paid dearly for their rebellion. Yet, their negative examples are useful reminders for all of us. We need to combat the pride that makes it difficult for us to respect authority.
What do these Old Testament examples of "pride and haughtiness" have to do with the Christian arrangement Jesus instituted?5. How have imperfect humans misused their authority?5 On the other hand, imperfect humans in positions of power have done much to undermine respect for authority. Many have been cruel, abusive, or tyrannical. In fact, human history is largely a record of the abuse of power. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) For example, Saul was a good, humble man when Jehovah chose him to be king. However, he succumbed to pride and jealousy; he then persecuted the faithful man David. (1 Samuel 9:20, 21; 10:20-22; 18:7-11) David later became one of the best kings Israel ever had, yet he misused his power when he stole the wife of Uriah the Hittite and sent that innocent man to the front lines to be killed in battle. (2 Samuel 11:1-17) Yes, imperfection makes it hard for people to handle power well. And when those in power do not respect Jehovah, they do even worse. After describing the way that some Catholic popes instituted widespread persecution, a British statesman wrote: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." With such a record in mind, let us consider the question: Why should we respect authority?
Can you believe this "Catholic" bashing when they themselves have a disgusting record of abuse of power:w81 9/15 p.23: "Persons who make themselves "not of our sort" by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing."w72 1/1 p.31:...While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.w86 9/1 p.20:These Christians continued to pay back Caesar's things to Caesar. They obeyed the laws of the land as upright citizens. (Matthew 22:17-21; Romans 13:1-7) But more importantly, they paid back to God the things that belonged to him, including their dedicated lives and Christian worship. Hence, when Caesar demanded to have God's things, they acted in harmony with the principles stated at Acts 4:19 and 5:29. Whether the issue was shedding blood, noncombatant military work, alternative service, or saluting an image such as a national flag, faithful Christians took the position that there was no middle ground. In some cases they were executed because of this stand.-Matthew 24:9; Revelation 2:10.w67 11/15 p.702When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.
WHY RESPECT AUTHORITY?6, 7. (a) What does our love for Jehovah move us to do, and why? (b) What attitude does submission involve, and how may we show it?6 The best reasons to respect authority spring from love-our love for Jehovah, for our fellow man, and even for ourselves. Because we love Jehovah above all else, we want to make his heart rejoice. (Proverbs 27:11; Mark 12:29, 30) We know that his sovereignty, his right to rule the universe, has been challenged on earth ever since the rebellion in Eden and that the majority of mankind have sided with Satan and rejected Jehovah's rule. We are thrilled to take the opposite stand. When we read the majestic words of Revelation 4:11, they strike a chord in our heart. How clear it is to us that Jehovah is the rightful Ruler of the universe! We embrace Jehovah's sovereignty, accepting his rule in our day-to-day life.
Is it sufficient for a JW to respect Jehovah's authority?
Why is Jesus not mentioned?
Should not Christians accept the authority of Jesus?
7 Such respect means obedience and more. We obey Jehovah readily because we love him. However, there are bound to be times when obedience will be very difficult for us. At such times we, like that little boy described at the outset, will need to learn submission. We recall that Jesus submitted to his Father's will even when doing so could seem very challenging. "Let, not my will, but yours take place," he said to his Father.-Luke 22:42.
Showing respect and obedience for God is fine - but notice "Such respect means obedience and more". I wonder where this is going....8. (a) Submission to Jehovah's authority today often involves what, and what reveals Jehovah's feelings in this regard? (b) What can help us to listen to counsel and accept discipline? (See the box on pages 46-7.)8 Of course, Jehovah does not speak to us individually today; he uses his Word and human representatives on earth. Most often, then, we show submission to Jehovah's authority by respecting those humans he has placed, or has allowed to continue, in positions of authority over us. If we were to rebel against those humans-for example, by refusing to accept their Scriptural counsel and correction-we would offend our God. When the Israelites murmured and rebelled against Moses, Jehovah took their actions personally as directed against him.-Numbers 14:26, 27.
"he uses his Word and human representatives on earth" - Which scripture talks about "human representatives" God has set up for Christians?
Where does the Bible say that the authority God gave to Moses in any way compares to a bunch of self appointed men in Brooklyn?
[Box on page 46, 47]"LISTEN TO COUNSEL AND ACCEPT DISCIPLINE"
Satan's spirit-his rebellious, contentious attitude-fills today's world. The Bible thus refers to Satan as "the ruler of the authority of the air" and mentions the resulting "spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2) Many today want to be completely independent of the authority of others. Sadly, that spirit of independence has even infected some in the Christian congregation. For example, an elder may offer some kindly counsel on the dangers of immoral or violent entertainment, but some may resist or even resent the counsel. Each of us needs to apply the words of Proverbs 19:20: "Listen to counsel and accept discipline, in order that you may become wise in your future."
What can help us in this regard? Consider three common reasons why people resist counsel or discipline, and then note the Scriptural viewpoint.
? "I don't think the counsel was appropriate." We may feel that the counsel does not really fit our circumstances or that the one giving it did not grasp the whole picture. Our immediate reaction might even be to belittle the counsel. (Hebrews 12:5) Since we are all imperfect, is it not possible that our own view of the matter is what needs adjusting? (Proverbs 19:3) Was there not some valid reason for the counsel to be given? Then that is what we need to focus on. God's Word advises us: "Take hold on discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life."-Proverbs 4:13.
? "I don't like the way the counsel was given." Granted, God's Word sets a high standard for the way counsel should be given. (Galatians 6:1) However, the Bible also says: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) The only way that we can ever receive perfect counsel delivered in just the right way is to receive it from a perfect person. (James 3:2) Jehovah uses imperfect humans to counsel us, so it is wise to avoid focusing on the way the counsel is given. Look, rather, to the content of the counsel, and prayerfully consider how to apply it.
? "He is in no position to counsel me!" If we think that personal faults in the counselor invalidate his counsel, we need to remember the points noted above. Likewise, if we think that our age, experience, or responsibilities in the congregation somehow put us above counsel, we need to readjust our thinking. In ancient Israel, the king had great responsibilities, yet he had to accept counsel from prophets, priests, and others who were among his subjects. (2 Samuel 12:1-13; 2 Chronicles 26:16-20) Today, Jehovah's organization appoints imperfect men to offer counsel, and mature Christians gladly accept it and apply it. If we have greater responsibilities or experience than others do, we should be even more conscious of the need to set an example in reasonableness and humility by accepting counsel and applying it.-1 Timothy 3:2, 3; Titus 3:2.
Clearly, none of us is above counsel. So let us be resolved to accept counsel readily, apply it obediently, and thank Jehovah heartily for this lifesaving gift. Counsel really is an expression of Jehovah's love for us, and we want to remain in God's love.-Hebrews 12:6-11.9. Why will our love for our fellow man move us to respect authority? Illustrate.9 We also show respect for authority out of love for our fellow man. How so? Well, imagine that you are a soldier in an army. The success, even the very survival of the army, likely depends on each soldier's cooperation with, obedience to, and respect for the chain of command. If you were to undermine that organization by rebelling, all your fellow soldiers might well be placed in danger. Granted, human armies wreak terrible havoc in the world today. However, Jehovah has armies that do only good. The Bible refers to God hundreds of times as "Jehovah of armies." (1 Samuel 1:3) He is the Commander of a vast array of mighty spirit creatures. At times, Jehovah likens his earthly servants to an army. (Psalm 68:11; Ezekiel 37:1-10) If we were to rebel against the humans that Jehovah has put in authority over us, might we not be putting our fellow spiritual soldiers at risk? When a Christian rebels against appointed elders, others in the congregation may suffer as well. (1 Corinthians 12:14, 25, 26) When a child rebels, the whole family may suffer. So we show our love for our fellow man by developing a respectful and cooperative spirit.
Agh, after 9 paragraphs we get to the ones they want their members submissive to - the "appointed elders"
What does the thought and context of 1 Corinthians 12:14, 25, 26 have to do with rebelling "against appointed elders"?10, 11. How does a proper desire to benefit ourselves move us to be obedient to authority?10 We also respect authority because it is in our own best interests to do so. When Jehovah asks us to respect authority, he often mentions the benefits that will come to us for doing so. For instance, he tells children to obey their parents in order to live a long and good life. (Deuteronomy 5:16; Ephesians 6:2, 3) He tells us to respect congregation elders because failure to do so will cause us spiritual harm. (Hebrews 13:7, 17) And he tells us to obey secular authorities for our own protection.-Romans 13:4.
So Paul in Hebrews had in mind a group of men in each congregation being controlled by a centralised, legalistic, authoritarian and pharisaic hierarchy such as we see evident in the JW congregation?
11 Would you not agree that knowing why Jehovah wants us to obey helps us to respect authority? Let us, then, consider how we can show respect for authority in three principal areas of life. -
Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 20 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
4 pp.
"honor men of all sorts.
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LUKEWARM
*** lv chap. 4 pp. 36-41 Why Respect Authority? ***Why Respect Authority?"Honor men of all sorts."-1 PETER 2:17.1, 2. (a) What struggle do we face when it comes to authority? (b) What questions will we consider?HAVE you ever watched a small child react when he is asked to do something he really does not want to do? You may see quite a conflict written plainly on that little boy's face. He hears his parent's voice, and he knows that he is supposed to respect his parent's authority. But in this case, he just does not want to obey. His struggle illustrates a truth we all face.
How is this a valid illustration given that the child lacks the maturity of an adult in making sound decisions?
2 Respect for authority does not always come easily to us. Do you sometimes find it difficult to respect those who have a measure of authority over you? If so, you are not alone in this struggle. We live at a time when respect for authority seems to be at an all-time low. Yet, the Bible says that we need to show respect for those who hold positions of authority over us. (Proverbs 24:21) In fact, doing so is essential if we want to remain in God's love. Naturally, then, some questions arise. Why can it be so difficult for us to respect authority? Why does Jehovah ask this of us, and what will help us to comply? Finally, in what ways can we show respect for authority?Proverbs 24:12 "My son, fear Jehovah and the king. With those who are for a change, do not intermeddleHow does Proverbs show "that we need to show respect for those who hold positions of authority over us" given that it refers to the Davidic kings - unless the WTS think that they are the "king" or royalty spoken of here...
WHY IT IS A CHALLENGE3, 4. How did sin and imperfection begin, and why does our sinful nature make it a challenge for us to respect authority?3 Let us briefly consider two reasons why it can be such a challenge for us to show respect for those in authority. First, imperfection afflicts us; second, it afflicts those humans in authority over us. Human sin and imperfection got their start a long time ago, back in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve rebelled against God's authority. So sin began with rebellion. To this day, we have an inborn tendency to rebel.-Genesis 2:15-17; 3:1-7; Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12.
4 Because of our sinful nature, pride and haughtiness arise easily in most of us, whereas humility is a rare quality that we need to work hard to cultivate and maintain. Even after years of faithful service to God, we may give in to stubbornness and pride. For example, consider Korah, who faithfully stuck with Jehovah's people through many hardships. Still, he craved more authority and brazenly led a rebellion against Moses, the meekest man alive at that time. (Numbers 12:3; 16:1-3) Think, too, of King Uzziah, whose pride led him to enter Jehovah's temple and carry out a sacred duty reserved for the priests. (2 Chronicles 26:16-21) Such men paid dearly for their rebellion. Yet, their negative examples are useful reminders for all of us. We need to combat the pride that makes it difficult for us to respect authority.
What do these Old Testament examples of "pride and haughtiness" have to do with the Christian arrangement Jesus instituted?5. How have imperfect humans misused their authority?5 On the other hand, imperfect humans in positions of power have done much to undermine respect for authority. Many have been cruel, abusive, or tyrannical. In fact, human history is largely a record of the abuse of power. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) For example, Saul was a good, humble man when Jehovah chose him to be king. However, he succumbed to pride and jealousy; he then persecuted the faithful man David. (1 Samuel 9:20, 21; 10:20-22; 18:7-11) David later became one of the best kings Israel ever had, yet he misused his power when he stole the wife of Uriah the Hittite and sent that innocent man to the front lines to be killed in battle. (2 Samuel 11:1-17) Yes, imperfection makes it hard for people to handle power well. And when those in power do not respect Jehovah, they do even worse. After describing the way that some Catholic popes instituted widespread persecution, a British statesman wrote: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." With such a record in mind, let us consider the question: Why should we respect authority?
Can you believe this "Catholic" bashing when they themselves have a disgusting record of abuse of power:w81 9/15 p.23: "Persons who make themselves "not of our sort" by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing."w72 1/1 p.31:...While both homosexuality and bestiality are disgusting perversions, in the case of neither one is the marriage tie broken. It is broken only by acts that make an individual "one flesh" with a person of the opposite sex other than his or her legal marriage mate.w86 9/1 p.20:These Christians continued to pay back Caesar's things to Caesar. They obeyed the laws of the land as upright citizens. (Matthew 22:17-21; Romans 13:1-7) But more importantly, they paid back to God the things that belonged to him, including their dedicated lives and Christian worship. Hence, when Caesar demanded to have God's things, they acted in harmony with the principles stated at Acts 4:19 and 5:29. Whether the issue was shedding blood, noncombatant military work, alternative service, or saluting an image such as a national flag, faithful Christians took the position that there was no middle ground. In some cases they were executed because of this stand.-Matthew 24:9; Revelation 2:10.w67 11/15 p.702When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others.
WHY RESPECT AUTHORITY?6, 7. (a) What does our love for Jehovah move us to do, and why? (b) What attitude does submission involve, and how may we show it?6 The best reasons to respect authority spring from love-our love for Jehovah, for our fellow man, and even for ourselves. Because we love Jehovah above all else, we want to make his heart rejoice. (Proverbs 27:11; Mark 12:29, 30) We know that his sovereignty, his right to rule the universe, has been challenged on earth ever since the rebellion in Eden and that the majority of mankind have sided with Satan and rejected Jehovah's rule. We are thrilled to take the opposite stand. When we read the majestic words of Revelation 4:11, they strike a chord in our heart. How clear it is to us that Jehovah is the rightful Ruler of the universe! We embrace Jehovah's sovereignty, accepting his rule in our day-to-day life.
Is it sufficient for a JW to respect Jehovah's authority?
Why is Jesus not mentioned?
Should not Christians accept the authority of Jesus?
7 Such respect means obedience and more. We obey Jehovah readily because we love him. However, there are bound to be times when obedience will be very difficult for us. At such times we, like that little boy described at the outset, will need to learn submission. We recall that Jesus submitted to his Father's will even when doing so could seem very challenging. "Let, not my will, but yours take place," he said to his Father.-Luke 22:42.
Showing respect and obedience for God is fine - but notice "Such respect means obedience and more". I wonder where this is going....8. (a) Submission to Jehovah's authority today often involves what, and what reveals Jehovah's feelings in this regard? (b) What can help us to listen to counsel and accept discipline? (See the box on pages 46-7.)8 Of course, Jehovah does not speak to us individually today; he uses his Word and human representatives on earth. Most often, then, we show submission to Jehovah's authority by respecting those humans he has placed, or has allowed to continue, in positions of authority over us. If we were to rebel against those humans-for example, by refusing to accept their Scriptural counsel and correction-we would offend our God. When the Israelites murmured and rebelled against Moses, Jehovah took their actions personally as directed against him.-Numbers 14:26, 27.
"he uses his Word and human representatives on earth" - Which scripture talks about "human representatives" God has set up for Christians?
Where does the Bible say that the authority God gave to Moses in any way compares to a bunch of self appointed men in Brooklyn?
[Box on page 46, 47]"LISTEN TO COUNSEL AND ACCEPT DISCIPLINE"
Satan's spirit-his rebellious, contentious attitude-fills today's world. The Bible thus refers to Satan as "the ruler of the authority of the air" and mentions the resulting "spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2) Many today want to be completely independent of the authority of others. Sadly, that spirit of independence has even infected some in the Christian congregation. For example, an elder may offer some kindly counsel on the dangers of immoral or violent entertainment, but some may resist or even resent the counsel. Each of us needs to apply the words of Proverbs 19:20: "Listen to counsel and accept discipline, in order that you may become wise in your future."
What can help us in this regard? Consider three common reasons why people resist counsel or discipline, and then note the Scriptural viewpoint.
? "I don't think the counsel was appropriate." We may feel that the counsel does not really fit our circumstances or that the one giving it did not grasp the whole picture. Our immediate reaction might even be to belittle the counsel. (Hebrews 12:5) Since we are all imperfect, is it not possible that our own view of the matter is what needs adjusting? (Proverbs 19:3) Was there not some valid reason for the counsel to be given? Then that is what we need to focus on. God's Word advises us: "Take hold on discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life."-Proverbs 4:13.
? "I don't like the way the counsel was given." Granted, God's Word sets a high standard for the way counsel should be given. (Galatians 6:1) However, the Bible also says: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) The only way that we can ever receive perfect counsel delivered in just the right way is to receive it from a perfect person. (James 3:2) Jehovah uses imperfect humans to counsel us, so it is wise to avoid focusing on the way the counsel is given. Look, rather, to the content of the counsel, and prayerfully consider how to apply it.
? "He is in no position to counsel me!" If we think that personal faults in the counselor invalidate his counsel, we need to remember the points noted above. Likewise, if we think that our age, experience, or responsibilities in the congregation somehow put us above counsel, we need to readjust our thinking. In ancient Israel, the king had great responsibilities, yet he had to accept counsel from prophets, priests, and others who were among his subjects. (2 Samuel 12:1-13; 2 Chronicles 26:16-20) Today, Jehovah's organization appoints imperfect men to offer counsel, and mature Christians gladly accept it and apply it. If we have greater responsibilities or experience than others do, we should be even more conscious of the need to set an example in reasonableness and humility by accepting counsel and applying it.-1 Timothy 3:2, 3; Titus 3:2.
Clearly, none of us is above counsel. So let us be resolved to accept counsel readily, apply it obediently, and thank Jehovah heartily for this lifesaving gift. Counsel really is an expression of Jehovah's love for us, and we want to remain in God's love.-Hebrews 12:6-11.9. Why will our love for our fellow man move us to respect authority? Illustrate.9 We also show respect for authority out of love for our fellow man. How so? Well, imagine that you are a soldier in an army. The success, even the very survival of the army, likely depends on each soldier's cooperation with, obedience to, and respect for the chain of command. If you were to undermine that organization by rebelling, all your fellow soldiers might well be placed in danger. Granted, human armies wreak terrible havoc in the world today. However, Jehovah has armies that do only good. The Bible refers to God hundreds of times as "Jehovah of armies." (1 Samuel 1:3) He is the Commander of a vast array of mighty spirit creatures. At times, Jehovah likens his earthly servants to an army. (Psalm 68:11; Ezekiel 37:1-10) If we were to rebel against the humans that Jehovah has put in authority over us, might we not be putting our fellow spiritual soldiers at risk? When a Christian rebels against appointed elders, others in the congregation may suffer as well. (1 Corinthians 12:14, 25, 26) When a child rebels, the whole family may suffer. So we show our love for our fellow man by developing a respectful and cooperative spirit.
Agh, after 9 paragraphs we get to the ones they want their members submissive to - the "appointed elders"
What does the thought and context of 1 Corinthians 12:14, 25, 26 have to do with rebelling "against appointed elders"?10, 11. How does a proper desire to benefit ourselves move us to be obedient to authority?10 We also respect authority because it is in our own best interests to do so. When Jehovah asks us to respect authority, he often mentions the benefits that will come to us for doing so. For instance, he tells children to obey their parents in order to live a long and good life. (Deuteronomy 5:16; Ephesians 6:2, 3) He tells us to respect congregation elders because failure to do so will cause us spiritual harm. (Hebrews 13:7, 17) And he tells us to obey secular authorities for our own protection.-Romans 13:4.
So Paul in Hebrews had in mind a group of men in each congregation being controlled by a centralised, legalistic, authoritarian and pharisaic hierarchy such as we see evident in the JW congregation?
11 Would you not agree that knowing why Jehovah wants us to obey helps us to respect authority? Let us, then, consider how we can show respect for authority in three principal areas of life. -
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A Secret about DF'ing that Elders will NEVER tell you.
by Amazing inwhen i discussed this with some ex-jws in the past, they have pointed out to me that the following is not done in actual pracrice.
of course it is not done in practrice ... that is why i referred to it as a "secret" because elders do not normally disclose such information, either because they fear its effect, or because they have not thoroughly paid attention to the "pay attention" book.
in this post, i am not arguing about actual practice ... rather what the undisclosed, withheld, secretive information is ... and how being armed may allow """some""" jws to relax their conscience.. a secret that elders will not openly tell you.
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LUKEWARM
Hi Amazing,
Here is the latest direction in print considered this week in fact at the Congregation Bible Study. It's in the appendix of the 2008 book "Keep Yourselves in Gods Love"***lv pp. 208-209 How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person***What if a relative is disfellowshipped?
In such a case, the close bond between family members can pose a real test of loyalty. How should we treat a disfellowshipped relative? We cannot here cover every situation that may arise, but let us focus on two basic ones.In some instances, the disfellowshipped family member may still be living in the same home as part of the immediate household. Since his being disfellowshipped does not sever the family ties, normal day-to-day family activities and dealings may continue. Yet, by his course, the individual has chosen to break the spiritual bond between him and his believing family. So loyal family members can no longer have spiritual fellowship with him. For example, if the disfellowshipped one is present, he would not participate when the family gets together to study the Bible. However, if the disfellowshipped one is a minor child, the parents are still responsible to instruct and discipline him. Hence, loving parents may arrange to conduct a Bible study with the child.-Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17.
In other cases, the disfellowshipped relative may be living outside the immediate family circle and home. Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum. Loyal Christian family members do not look for excuses to have dealings with a disfellowshipped relative not living at home. Rather, loyalty to Jehovah and his organization moves them to uphold the Scriptural arrangement of disfellowshipping. Their loyal course has the best interests of the wrongdoer at heart and may help him to benefit from the discipline received.-Hebrews 12:11.
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If Jesus Was An Elder
by Mulan ini didn't write this poem, but think it is awesome.
a friend sent it to me yesterday.. if jesus was an elder.
if jesus was an elder, what would be his main concern?.
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LUKEWARM
Just beautiful - and what a contrast to the "truth"!
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Only Jehovah's Witnesses . . . . . The Arrogant Quote Collection
by nicolaou ini ran a search on my wt cd for the phrase "only jehovah's witnesses".
there were dozens of results, these are some of the more .
watchtower.
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LUKEWARM
How many unprovable statements of self praise are contained in those quotes?
Well said VM44!
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What was the amount of the 07 pedo settlement
by boyzone ini can't find it.
how much did the wt have to pay in the end?.
thanks.
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LUKEWARM
OnTheWayOut is exactly right when he said, "NBC News reported that it obtained a copy of one of the settlement documents in which an
alleged victim in one of the nine cases involving 16 victims received $781,250. That would work out to $12.5 million for 16 victims."
When I was purchasing court records for my CD, "Secrets of Pedophilia In An American Religion," the San Diego Court records department mistakenly sent me sealed court settlement papers. Ten days later, when they realized what they had done, I was contacted and asked not to publish the papers. I was not asked to keep the figures secret so I shared the settlement amount with NBC Nightly News. I told the court that I would not publish the court papers but had sent copies of all the court documents to people who were involved with me on the compilation of material for the CD and had no control over what they did. This was accepted.
BarbaraThanks Barbara! Have just come across this now So this is where the funds go for the "World Wide Work Mt 24:14"...
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Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 6 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in" (1 corinthians 5:11-13).
(a) why is the disfellowshipping arrangement a loving one?
20 the disfellowshipping arrangement is really a loving provision from jehovah.
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LUKEWARM
Hi Boyzone
Yes the "Bible Study" this week was the entire appendix - and they dissected if fully!
As there are no questions, the conductor formulated some so the friends could have the points clearly in mind. Each paragraph was read, most scriptures were read and the Watchtower references were referred to and discussed...
Hope you can try and reason with your parents on a few of the points as they have obviously been misapplied... -
16
Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 6 April 2009
by LUKEWARM in" (1 corinthians 5:11-13).
(a) why is the disfellowshipping arrangement a loving one?
20 the disfellowshipping arrangement is really a loving provision from jehovah.
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LUKEWARM
Interesting how they devoted this weeks study purely on the appendix. How many actually thought about the misapplication of the Scriptures rather than just parroting "the paragraph says...."
"The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, stated: "A simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"
What twisted disgusting reasoning that has no precedent in the Bible - can you imagine Jesus doing this??
"Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. First, it is a matter of loyalty to God and his Word"
Loyalty to God or the WTS interpretation of what Christians need to do?
"Second, withdrawing from an unrepentant wrongdoer protects us and the rest of the congregation from spiritual and moral contamination and upholds the congregation's good name."
So members are denied any right to exercise their own intelligence and judgement as to whether a person is an "unrepentant wrongdoer"? Why must they wait for some religious authority to lift the "disfellowshiped" label before association with a person is acceptable?
"Third, our firm stand for Bible principles may even benefit the disfellowshipped one. By supporting the decision of the judicial committee, we may touch the heart of a wrongdoer who thus far has failed to respond to the efforts of the elders to assist him. Losing precious fellowship with loved ones may help him to come "to his senses," see the seriousness of his wrong, and take steps to return to Jehovah.-Luke 15:17."
"Supporting the decision of the judicial committee" is what they want and what is most important to them. How do we know if the committee of imperfect men actually made the right decision - how did they really discern his/her heart condition?
Incredible that they quote the account about the prodigal son coming "to his senses"! Why not state the full story? Did Jesus say that the father in the story upon seeing his wayward son approaching the home, rather than running out and embracing him as he did, ignored him as he was not living with him in the house and insisted that his son first be screened by a committee of three men before expressing parental interest and affection and even celebrating his return??