LUKEWARM

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Posts by LUKEWARM

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  12

  A Beginners Guide To Apostacy

  by fullofdoubtnow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is something trev wrote the other day specially for our friend marion.

  she spent most yesterday with us, and shared our "apostadinner" which is what trev called it.

  she quite enjoyed the article, which is written in a somewhat tongue - in - cheek style, typical trev really.

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  LUKEWARM

  Great post!
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  22

  Please Suggest An Answer to This Conversation Stopper

  by maputo95 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please suggest an answer to this conversation stopper: i sent the first statement and he responded with the 2nd statement:.

  equivocation:.

  the bible forbids "taking in" blood.

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  LUKEWARM

  Ask him: Why people get disfellowshipped for taking Platelets (that make up about 5% of blood) but taking Hemoglobin (makes up about 15% of blood) is a conscience matter?
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  55

  New BOE letter on inactive ones

  by JWFreak in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  again..please do not ask for a pdf scan as the only copies i have are the interbranch electronic copies from the us branch to our local branch.. .

  november 3, 2009 .

  to all bodies of elders .

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  LUKEWARM

  next to the date on the right there is a little edit icon...
• 
  67

  WT SOCIETY IS WRONG ON BLOOD

  by Vinny in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?.

  still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?

  still not sure the jw's are wrong on blood?

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  LUKEWARM

  Brilliant Vinny!

  IMHO I rate your well written and thought out post as one of the best in educating others about the alternative arguments of the WTS current stand.

  I have shared with other JW’s your letter posted here which captures this research very well (if it didn’t have that little paragraph at the start about disassociation it would make it even more palatable to present to JW’s)

  http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html

  For the benefit of any lurkers, other information I have found valuable on this subject:

  1. Direct correspondence with the Watchtower (R. Jensen letters) – how they respond to an appointed elder who raises important questions about critical life and death details of the blood doctrine/policy.

  http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml

  2. The chapter Ray Franz wrote in his second book about the blood doctrine.

  http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/4C648686-695D-48C7-ACA8-A52794ED6128_files/Search-Eng-Chap%209.2006.pdf

  3. The chapter our very own Mary has put together on blood via her project.

  http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/bible/mary-s-project-an-analysis-of-jehovah-s-witness-doctrine.html

  Lukewarm
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  54

  CO spins the continuous “faithful and discreet slave” doctrine - explaining how “ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER” for 1900 years!

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

  isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

  what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

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  LUKEWARM

  ***w751/15p.46HowAreChristiansSpirituallyFed?***Jesus had said: "Look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." (Matt. 28:20) Jesus Christ is the Head of the congregation, his slave, and his words show that he would strengthen them to feed his "domestics" right down through the centuries. Apparently one generation of the "slave" class fed the succeeding generation thereof, as well as continuing to feed themselves.
  
  
  ***w955/15pp.16-17par.5Part1-FlashesofLight-GreatandSmall*** 5 In this regard, the book God'sKingdomofaThousandYearsHasApproached stated: "As to just how the 'faithful and discreet slave' class existed and served down through the centuries after the death of the apostles of the Master Jesus Christ, we do not have a distinct historical picture. Apparently one generation of the 'slave' class fed the next succeeding generation thereof. (2 Timothy 2:2) But in the latter half of the nineteenth century there were God-fearing persons who loved the spiritual food of the Holy Bible and who desired to feed on it . . . Bible study classes . . . were formed and progressed in the understanding of the fundamental truths of the Sacred Scriptures. The sincere unselfish ones among these Bible students were eager to share these vital portions of spiritual food with others. They had the faithful spirit of the 'slave' appointed to give the 'domestics' the needed spiritual 'food at the proper time.' They were 'discreet' in discerning that it was then the right and proper time and what were the best means for serving the food. They endeavored to serve it."-Pages 344-5.
  Apparentlyits all Bible based...
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  15

  How can they still believe it?

  by eyesthatsee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been watching this site for some time now - it's been a real help - but only recently started to post.

  part of the journey i suppose.. 3rd generation jw, served as an elder for > 20 years, talks at dc, pioneer etc - started to fade in last 12 months - will post my story sometime.. anyway, occasionally i still go to a meeting to keep my zealous jw wife away from the elders.. at a recent public talk, the speaker referred to 'millions now living will never die', and said:.

  although 'premature', this proclamation was made by zealous anointed ones i.e.

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  LUKEWARM

  The sad fact is eyesthatsee, is that the majority of todays JW's have no idea about 1874, 1914, 1925, 1975 etc. That is unless they are brave/rebellious enough to actually do a bit of research on 'tinterweb. And then many of them will dismiss the overwhelming evidence of the failled prophecies as Apostate fakes. Although, how they think that the Apostates are colluding to publish all these facts is beyond me.

  So true Paul Uk! - IMHO the biggest problem is the WTS demonises apostates and never elaborates as to what the disagreements are - the rank and file are purely victims of information and thought control which the leadership imposes

  http://www.caic.org.au/general/mindcon2.htm

  Some are there for purely social resons others for family but how many after exposure to the real truth willingly stick around?
  
  Helping them to investigate the alternative arguments, think for themselves and draw conclusions is the key - but they need to have some willingness to face the facts....
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  54

  CO spins the continuous “faithful and discreet slave” doctrine - explaining how “ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER” for 1900 years!

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

  isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

  what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

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  LUKEWARM

  Thanks for your comments guys!
  
  Must admit there were many blank faces as I glanced at others listening to this, and quite a few gathered after the meeting around the board on the platform where the CO had his massive poster hung with timeline and pictures of the various characters.
  
  CO's main arguments were:
  
  (1) There were always people searching for the pattern of the truth
  (2) We cannot be dogmatic as to who was and who was not anointed
  (3) The "truth" has become really clear now
  
  Speaking to him afterwards about where I could find some of this info to do further research, he mentioned it was in various Watchtowers and the Proclaimers book.
  
  This totally unsubstantiated nonsense - requiring mental gymnastics to make any sense out of - certainly drove another nail in the JW coffin for me...
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  54

  CO spins the continuous “faithful and discreet slave” doctrine - explaining how “ONE GENERATION OF SLAVE FED ANOTHER” for 1900 years!

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here are my notes from his service talk theme:.

  isa 65:3 = we live in a rich spiritual paradise (isa 65:3).

  what is the history of the faithful and discreet slave?.

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  LUKEWARM

  Here are my notes from his service talk theme:

  DO YOU APPRECIATE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?

  Isa 65:3 = We live in a rich spiritual paradise (Isa 65:3)

  We have spiritual abundance – the world has nothing.

  Do we take this for granted?

  New publications, WT/AW, daily text, meetings, yearbook, District Convention, Circuit Assembly, Special Assembly Day…

  Where does it come from?

  The “faithful and discreet slave”

  What is the History of the “faithful and discreet slave”?

  Deut 29:29 = To the original faithful servant it was “revealed” the 10 commandments, mosaic law, first 5 books of Bible.

  Rom 3:2–39 = God inspired Jewish penman to complete 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures

  Mat 24:45 = Jesus had a question because the original slave was not faithful. A new slave class was appointed at Pentecost.

  1 Cor 4:1 = Anointed Christians were given the responsibility to be “stewards of sacred secrets of God”. God inspired anointed Christians to write remaining 27 books of the bible

  Mat 28:20 = Although the Apostle John was the last writer, Jesus promised to be with them right through to the end

  How was Jesus going to be with them during the period of apostasy?

  What was to happen to the “faithful and discreet slave”?

  Mat 13:24 -30 = Jesus uttered a prophecy.

  Sower = Jesus

  Field = World

  Wheat = Genuine 144k

  Weeds = Imitation Christians (particularity clergy)

  Harvest = Conclusion (span a long period of time)

  Men sleeping = Elders at the end of first century

  Grow together = Time needed before harvest

  Storehouse = Theocratic org that Jah will set up

  Fulfilment?

  Pentecost 33 CE = First of 144K appointed

  1 st century = GB was set up, congregations/meetings established, elders and MS appointed, letters from GB, relief funds, preaching

  End of 1 st century = Weeds

  Jesus gave us a distinct historical picture of one generation of slave feeding another”

  2 Tim 2:2 = Scriptural principle of 4 generations (First Paul passed on to Timothy then he to other men and they then passed on to other qualified men)

  How did it happen?

  33 CE FDS appointed

  69 CE - 155 CE Polycarp overlapped John life

  120 CE - 200 CE Irenaeus stuck to the teachings of Apostles and was against apostasy

  300 CE Arius translated Bible

  500 CE – 1100 CE Apostacy

  1179 CE Peter Waldo

  1252 CE Holy Inquisition

  1330 CE - 1384 CE John Wycliffe (Lolards)

  1369 CE - 1415 CE John Hus

  1525 CE Anabaptists believed in Christs return and rejected immortal soul and trinity teaching.

  1436 CE Johannes Gutenberg (printing press)

  1494 CE – 1536 CE William Tyndale

  1511 CE – 1533 CE Michael Servetus

  1533 CE Laelinus Socinus

  1781 CE – 1862 CE Henry Grew

  1796 CE – 1879 CE George Storrs

  2 Tim 2:19 = Cannot be dogmatic as to who was and who was not anointed

  2 Tim 1:13 = All had one thing in common – all searching for the pattern

  Dan 12:4= Before time of the end knowledge would increase

  1870 CE Charles T Russel had questions which led to spiritual discussions. Discerned invisible return of Christ, began to preach and publish literature

  Mat 13:43= These ones were “shining” because the pattern of healthful works had emerged

  1919 CE Mat 24:47 was fulfilled with FDS appointed

  Men are imperfect but Jesus perfect

  Vital to remain loyal, p reach, show co-operation and a ttend meetings/conventions

  Show appreciation by accepting adjustments

  Ps 87:5 = Blessings soon to receive in the new world

  Rom 11:33 = Jah’s accomplishments and names of individuals will be made known in the 1000 year reign

  Now is the time to show appreciation for “the faithful and discreet slave”
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  5

  A Watchtower Blood Paradox—Buying a Service

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a watchtower blood paradoxbuying a service.

  watchtower writes:.

  it could be seen that it would not be right for a christian to work exclusively for a blood bank, where everything was devoted to an end that was in violation of gods law.

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  LUKEWARM

  This is GOLD Marvin!

  Cant wait to use it with the "friends" and see the cognitive dissonance. Hopefully it will prompt some thinking...
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  21

  This good news of the kingdom

  by sd-7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you'll open your 'benefit from theocratic ministry school education' books to page 279, you'll notice that it says, "the message jesus said would be preached in our time goes beyond what was preached in the first century.

  " if you actually opened your books, i'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty close to the actual quote.. i remembered this quote from sometime ago, but couldn't understand how people overlooked this obvious violation of galatians 1:8: "even though we or an angel out of heaven should declare to you as good news something beyond what we preached, let him be accursed.".

  of course, the answer is obvious: many jws don't pay attention to what they read.

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  LUKEWARM

  Brilliant and thanks for posting this SD-7!

  For any lurkers out there, you might want to check out this as well

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/18573/1/A-Day-for-a-Year-I-Need-a-Beer