trebor

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Posts by trebor

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  22

  WT advice about unbelieving mates or DF'ed family members

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a revival of an old thread: http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=8144.0;topicseen.

  i revived it as i was looking for it to show to someone else.. it seems they wish they could legally kill people's own family members.

  since they cannot, they encourage believing mates to prostitute themselves with the unbeliever- trade sex (marital due) for financial support.. here's the older wt article that reveals "their" attitude toward unbelieving or df'ed family members:.

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  trebor

  So basically, too bad such laws are in place or else we would stone our apostate fleshly family members to death!

  It goes hand-in-hand with this gem:

  The Watchtower, July 15, 1961, page 420:
  
  "Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked."The Watchtower Society's message is clear. Despite Jesus' teaching to love your enemy, the principle to hate what is bad must be followed to a superlative degree. It is not just to hate what a person has done, but to hate the person. Just love these cult-like teachings!
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  22

  The new explanation of the Generation

  by Newborn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi.

  can someone who has attended the dc tell me what the new understanding of the generation is and how they explain it with help from the bible?.

  newborn.

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  trebor

  My favorite point with this whole "Generation" teaching from the Society throughout the years is how they use the same Bible verse to "support" their definition of the word:

  Insight on the Scriptures,Volume 1, page 917:
  
  "A generation commonly refers to all persons who were born about the same time. (Ex 1:6)"

  April 15, 2010, Watchtower: "It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6)"Two completely different takes on 'generation' using the same bible verse as support. In one occasion, it supports people “born about the same time”, and then in another instance the same verse supports “varying ages whose lives overlap”. The Watchtower Society has a knack for twisting the application of scriptures to suit their agenda and interpretation of 'truth' at any given time...LOL!
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  83

  How to respond to "Whoelse is preaching the good news worldwide?"

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this scripture stands out to me...... 1 cor 1:17-21 for christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing, but to go declaring the good news, not with wisdom of speech, that the torture stake of the christ should not be made useless.. 18 for the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is gods power.

  19 for it is written: i will make the wisdom of the wise [men] perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual [men] i will shove aside.

  20 where is the wise man?

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  trebor

  debator...big on following Jesus instructions to his disciples...Open the New World Translation to Luke chapter 10...Make sure you read verse 7 outloud:

  1 After these things the Lord designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come. 2 Then he began to say to them: “The harvest, indeed, is great, but the workers are few. Therefore beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. 3 Go forth. Look! I am sending YOU forth as lambs in among wolves. 4 Do not carry a purse, nor a food pouch, nor sandals, and do not embrace anybody in greeting along the road. 5 Wherever YOU enter into a house say first, ‘May this house have peace.’ 6 And if a friend of peace is there, YOUR peace will rest upon him. But if there is not, it will turn back to YOU . 7 So stay in that house, eating and drinking the things they provide, for the worker is worthy of his wages. Do not be transferring from house to house.

  Jesus' command regarding the ministry is not to move from ‘house to house’. Other translations also show this to be Jesus’ command in verse 7:
  
  New International Version (NIV): "Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house."
  
  American Standard Version (ASV):"And in that same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house."
  
  New King James Version (NKJV):"And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house."
  
  Young's Literal Translation (YLT):"And in that house remain, eating and drinking the things they have, for worthy [is] the workman of his hire; go not from house to house,"
  
  English Standard Version (ESV): "And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house."
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  114

  The old big orange "Paradise" book

  by aquagirl in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  anyone remember that?

  i learned to read on that book.there were some very disturbing images,like the earth opening up and people falling into it.like upside down ladies and hippies.id love to get a hold of one and peruse it with a friend and some herbal medicine.maybe there is one in the attic?anyway,that and the image of the snake talking to the beautiful,bare shouldered eve,who was holding an apple,made a big impression on me.any else have any faves from that book?is it still being used?.

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  trebor

  Alice...

  Nothing like promoting 1975 with the good old "Truth Book":

  The Truth Book, primary study aid for Jehovah’s Witnesses to use with Bible Students published prior to the year 1975 reads as follows on page 9 under ‘Grand Blessings from God Near at Hand!’:
  
  “Also, as reported back in 1960, a former United States Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, declared that our time is "a period of unequaled instability, unequaled violence." And he warned: "I know enough of what is going on to assure you that, in fifteen years from today, this world is going to be too dangerous to live in."

  [Note: 15 years from 1960=1975]
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  45

  The Theocratic Life and Times of Theodore Jaracz - NEW

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the theocratic life and times of theodore jaracz .

  by barbara anderson.

  [we are doing a special focus on the dark side of brooklyn bethel for a couple of weeks over at freeminds.org].

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  trebor

  Nevertheless, the preservation of “God’s organization” was second to Jaracz, the Bible teaching was first.

  Forgive me if I seem like a nitpicker, but shouldn't this be reversed?

  Syl

  Substitute ‘the Bible’ with ‘his believed interpretation of Bible’ to understand what I believe was the intent of the statement.
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  29

  At last the explanation of "Generation" its in Exodus chp 6

  by judi8751 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  estranged hubby went to convention on sunday, he so excited "here is the explanation we have been waiting for, it makes so much sense, its to do with the tribes of israel and the overlap".

  omg yawn .....yawn, what ......still dont get it, can someone explain lol please hahahaha.

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  trebor

  If he'd jump on the 'new light' response. Ask, Does "new light" excuse false prophecy?

  "From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ is: 'This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.' (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son's words in a relatively short time.--Isaiah 46:9,10; 55:10,11."
  --The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pages 6-7

  Note: The expression "[of 1914]" is in the original Watchtower text.

  “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’"--New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - Deuteronomy 18:20-22.
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  29

  At last the explanation of "Generation" its in Exodus chp 6

  by judi8751 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  estranged hubby went to convention on sunday, he so excited "here is the explanation we have been waiting for, it makes so much sense, its to do with the tribes of israel and the overlap".

  omg yawn .....yawn, what ......still dont get it, can someone explain lol please hahahaha.

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  trebor

  It was not too long ago, another publication referencing the same word "generation" also used the highlighted scripture in Exodus to explain the 'correct' understanding. The Insight on the Scriptures book Volume 1, page 917 makes this statement: "A generation commonly refers to all persons who were born about the same time. (Ex 1:6)"
  
  However, now the Watchtower Society states according to the April 15, 2010, Watchtower: "It usually refers to people of varying ages whose livesoverlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6)"

  Ask your hubby, which one is it?
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  157

  I want to know whether 607 is valid or not.

  by XPeterX in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i seek concrete evidence.explain it in a few words or post links that can contradict jw material.if 607 is a lie then 1914 is lie..

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  trebor

  When Jerusalem fell is documented in the Bible at 2 Kings 25:8-9:
  
  "And in the fifth month on the seventh [day] of the month, that is to say, the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah and the king's house and all the houses of Jerusalem; and the house of every great man he burned with fire."
  
  
  The nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar rule is when Jerusalem fell.
  
  What year is the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar?
  
  This can be deduced with the aid of referencing two of the Watchtower Society’s publications. The first publication is Insight on the Scriptures. On page 457 in Volume 2 under ‘Nabonidus’ it states the following:
  
  "Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion."The second reference, the Watchtower Society's publication Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules on page 184 it states: "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar. According to the inscriptions that have been found, this usurper of the throne spent most of his time in building operations and reigned four years. When he died, his son Labashi-Marduk, though not yet of age, succeeded him. He was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin. Nabonidus, who had served as Governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar's favorite son-in-law, now took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign till Babylon fell in 539 B.C."Take into consideration along with the above information that both Historical data and the Watchtower Society agree that Nebuchadnezzar ruled for a period of 43 years...

  Insight on the Scriptures, page 480 in Volume 2 under ‘Nebuchadnezzar’:

  "Nebuchadnezzarruled as king for 43 years"

  Now let’s gather the above information...

  539 B.C. = Year Babylon Fell

  Prior to the fall of Babylon, the history of its rulership is as follows: 17 years = Rulership of Nabonidus 1 year (9 months) = Rulership of Labashi-Marduk 4 years = Rulership of Neriglissar 2 years = Rulership of Evil-Merodach 43 years = Rulership of NebuchadnezzarDoing the math with the above facts:
  
  539 + 17 + 1 +4 + 2 + 43 = 606
  NOTE: We add here because we are tracing back the years of rulership. During B.C. years to go back in history you add years, to go forward in history you subtract years.
  
  Therefore, 606 B.C. would be the year Nebuchadnezzar starts to rule.
  
  Going back to our scripture in 2 Kings 25: 8, 9, it was during Nebuchadnezzar’s 19th year that Jerusalem fell.
  
  Doing that math: 606 - 19 = 587NOTE: We subtract here because time is progressing during Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. The years decrease not increase, as we are calculating B.C. years and not A.D. years.
  
  From the above, 587 B.C. would be the year Jerusalem fell.It’s plain to see that simply by using two of the Watchtower Society’s own publications along with two verses from the Bible, one can prove the teaching of Jerusalem fallen on 607 B.C. which Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to be accurate by the Watchtower Society is a lie. It is a teaching to support their doctrine and interpretation of scripture.
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  35

  Did your congregation have "Talent" Shows?

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i saw this video on youtube and didnt know if i should laugh or crawl into the fetal position.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abm0t-qhllc&feature=related.

  .

  we had several "talent" shows over the years in my original congregation - it was the only annual gathering more nauseating that the meetings.. my friend and i would always bring our walkmans and blare heavy metal in the back - hoping to block out the embarassing crap on the stage.you always had a few older ones get up on stage and slaughter a kingdumb song.

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  trebor

  Back in 1994, before Yonkers East was split into two congregations to make Crestwood and the aforementioned, the biggest 'talent' show they had was called the 'Silvertop' gathering. It consisted basically of lip-syncing as well as performing to hits from the 50's and 60's. There was a Diana Ross skit, Elvis, and some others. Honestly, it was a good time and the congregation overall had a lot of fun.

  However, that was the first and last. The [new] Circuit Overseer in town informed the congregation(s) that it was too much of a time consuming waste of time that could be better spent 'in the ministry' or in more 'personal study'.

  It really was a shame, and you can see the disappointment coupled with the 'must follow orders' on the faces and reactions from the members in the Hall. There were kids as young as 8-9, and adults as old as 50-60 who performed, and it could definitely be seen as 'wholesome upbuilding association'. Yet, the Organization always finds a way to make the members feel guilty about doing anything outside of the Organization's activities and they're not doing enough in service to Jeh...THEM. The Watchtower Society controls it all. Sad.
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  28

  Are they deliberately trying to get rid of the "Old TImers"? (re "generation")

  by hamsterbait in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the vast majority have been sucked into the witchtower babble and trash cult over the last 25 years.. this constant rehashing and contradicting of the "generation " teaching is bound to drive significant numbers of the pre 1985 -"ish" witlesses away from the kingdumb hells, much as "1925" drove away vast numbers who might yet undermine "jug" rutherfords efforts to secure his power.. they will then be able to make major revisions of what to us older ones seem like core doctrines, which will be lapped up like iced cream by those who only have the perspective of the 21 century litterature.. this is too obviously deliberate.

  its not like some tiny side comment:.

  when the gibbering buddy wants some embarrassing thing to go away, blondie has pointed out many examples, they stop talking about it.. with this change they are rubbing peoples noses in it, slapping them round the head so they dont miss it.. and who are "gasping" at the co talks?

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  trebor

  I just read over Blondie's comments again:

  "I do know that about 9 years ago, a hot-shot young CO came through and removed about 20 old-time elders."

  The Jerry Crana I know (from the New England area) was already a couple (or several) years no longer a C.O. back in 1990's. He is at least in his mid to late 50's now. He doesn't fit this description or scenario. Unless Blondie is mistaken about the time frame (Maybe more like 19 years ago?)