i haven't attended the meetings on a regular basis,since about 2008. a meeting period in about 2 years.. .
probably 6 months ago i ran into a brother, whom was working at a local grocery store.
he was making a delivery as a vendor,somehow we got to talking,religion came up and he found out i am a jw, though i told hime i no longer attend.
LOL You've been away for too long and you don't remember that "the end is just around the corner" and the urgency in the JW voice has always been there as if the end was to come any day then as a it is now and it will be tomorrow.
Want to make them stop repeating the same trash and think maybe for a second, ask them how close do they think the end is in actual months or years.
i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.
brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).
during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.
they are simply another Christian sect with a different take on the Bible,
They may just tell you that they're the only doing preaching work like no one else. If they're too deeply indoctrinated there really is nothing you can do at this time other than sow seeds of "hope". And by hope, I mean that maybe one day one of those people will have event in their life where they will think independently and remember what you said and that information will somehow make them think, but since hope is usually an empty word it's unlikely these witnesses will do anything with the information they hear.
A JW who is deep asleep will ignore any and all truths presented because there is always something that makes wts the troof. 607 wrong? No problem, it will get sorted out later. 1914 wrong? No problem we're serving Jehovah not for a time. GB not chosen? How do you know? .... And on and on. You read posts by Alice/Maze here many times and no truth was able to penetrate it's mind so likewise these dubs are beyond help at this time.
IMO the only thing you can do is give them some information that they may ponder upon at some later period but besides that I wouldn't expect anything out of the conversation. If your wife is under heavy mind control like many active witnesses, she won't see the problem even if the elders can't explain 607 or 1918 to you in front of her. Only when an individual is going through some sort of event in their life, are they willing to think differently than their usual thinking pattern allows them - that's how generally people get recruited into a cult and how many also leave the cult.
i just want to know out of interest how many here still believe in god and christ and that the bible is god's word.
my faith in the wts is gone but i still love god and his son.
i've noticed that many here have lost their faith in god as well as the wts.
When leaving wts I too believed in Jehovah, Jesus and the bible. But as time went on and more researched I did past wts BS, I realized that not only was wts full of shit but also the bible. So I would consider myself agnostic, there may be a god out there, but definitely not a bible god. I think many of us who leave high control groups tend to research more than less when it comes to god and that's the reason why majority come to the conclusion that the bible is just another book written by men for men.
i went to the nearby 7-eleven on my lunch break to get a fountain drink and i happened to bump into some people from my wifes congregation including brother hero and brother sidekick.
brother hero was the guy who conducted a bible study with me using the bible teach book (my god, i have been around the witnesses and former witnesses too much as i even know the cult speak and book name abbreviations).
during our study he began bringing over another brother from the congregation who i began referring to as brother sidekick.. i found out from my wife that brother sidekick is the son-in-law of one of the elders in that congregation.
Rather than asking him about 1919, maybe ask him why the articles on 607 he gave you, misquote and misrepresent the information that's in there? C.O. Jonsson does a great job pointing out the deception which should help you with the argument without needing to do too much research yourself. After all, if the Herodub or sidekick acknowledge that 607 is wrong, then you can ask then on what basis are GB their leaders if their authority is all based on a 607.
many of you may know that i was brought up a witness and stayed in until the age of 42, even reaching the dizzy heights of being a congregation elder.
i was unusual in that, even as a witness i studied to degree level, on a part time basis, sponsored by my employer.
my first was in chemistry and my masters is in business administration.
Bible the creation by higher class of men to control lower class. Lower class was more ignorant and so many of us were when we believed in this BS while dubs. Once we look outside of religious nonsense we see it for what it really is and we either close our eyes to the reality that the bible is just another book written by men. Or we can delude ourselves into imagining it's God's word because we can't fathom the idea that there is no God and we'll cease to exist once we die. And then there are those hearing Jesus talking to them.....
i, like many of you, are aware of many issues involving the watchtower society.
this is about the watchtower, world government and the new world order.. .
" -- watchtower 1978 3/1 the kingdom of our lord and of his christ takes over.
Could one tell Germans from French or English
Yes. It's difficult for an "American" (I don't mean you personally) to tell because you are raised in diverse society and don't notice traits when growing up.
As for world government, it's a pipe dream that may happen long long time from now, if ever. Conspiracy theorists are nut jobs for most part, while some ideas are valid but many just aren't. Population control is right and they should have done so already! China has had one child policy for several decades and they're still growing. The earth's natural resources can't sustain 7 billion people if we all were to live like we are in the western world! The bloodlines are total garbage, especially when some nutjobs bring in the idea that Charles Russell was an Illuminati! Same with occult and wts! Just crazy talk, just as crazy as Freddy's 1975 prediction!
while researching tax exempt status of organizations in the usa for my next legislative letter writing campaign against the wtbts, i found this letter from charles w. boustany, jr, oversight subcommittee - chairman to douglas h. shulman, commissioner - internal revenue service, which was dated october 6, 2011. it just made me wonder if aarp's tax exempt status could be in jeopardy because of its business practises, why can't the wtbts' business practise of extracting donations from jws through building and selling khs be questioned?.
i'm trying to discover if now is a good time to raise eliminating tax exemptions for organizations that are dangerous cults, and to think of several different ideas in which to ask congressman and senators to investigate the wtbts in specific and cults in general.. what do you think?.
peace be with you and everyone, who you love,.
Ok, how about focusing on taxing ALL religions so no one is left out and if that passes wts will be affected. I have no problem seeing all religions pay tax on donations and contributions. Those who actually do charitable work that benefit the general public( NOT RECRUITING) can write the related expenses off so that religions and cults like wts would have to pay taxes on the whole lot.
KH fund is operated like an insurance agent, why can't that be taxed?
They want fire and police protection then they should pay for those services and not be totally tax exempt! Weren't there homes in US that burned but fire department didn't save the homes because the owners didn't pay the services on time or something to that effect? Why did fire department help put out fires at the khs in California if those KHs aren't paying any property taxes which includes FD and PD services.
They have volunteers working, they should still pay into social security or pension or whatever law affects people when they retire.
In Canada there is WCB, they should pay into that regardless if it's volunteer work or not, especially when these volunteers are full time workers at Bethel.
If they make profit on sale of property, the profits should be taxed. You can always have clauses added dealing with details.
IMO politicians have many things they can do to stop religions from just forming and operating tax free when they don't serve any useful purpose to the general public. It is a good time to bring these things to the notice of politicians especially when they have huge deficits and are looking for ways to cut back on spending and for ways in increasing revenue.
are jehovah's witnesses allowed to eat the widely used e120 or carmine that is made of insect blood.
it is the whole insect including its blood that is used and if you crush a living cochineal insect you will see its red blood color, i've seen that done on a program on bbc where they also refer to the red as the insect's blood.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tkzb3.
Ever eat rare steak? Oh that sweet juicy goodness Just don't call it blood because it's only juice and not blood, right.
looking at the 607/587 bce issue, i was wondering if the bethel could spin some new light to avoid embarassment and buy themselves an extra 25 years or so.. if it was 1935, they could claim that the call to close the doors to heaven was actually the real date of jesus' invisible reign and tie up two embarassments with one flash of light.. best i could find though, nothing really important happended then.
anyone else with better jw historical records think of an "out" for them?.
once 2014 comes, they are in for a major explanation.
120 years of Noah's preaching, hows that for a next marker :)
Or we don't live for a date but serving Jehovah regardless if the end comes or not in our lifetime
A totally indoctrinated cult member will always make an excuse for the end being close. By 2014 US will be close to 18 trillion in debt which is something like 120% of debt to GDP so the last king is about to die any day now...
If peak oil occurs, the end is almost here because we can't live without oil
and on and on... Any newsworthy event is a possible market to a witness, it doesn't need to be a date.
Why look critically at the world when all you have to do is trust in GB and be active dub to make it into the new system of things.
Apathy? I don't know, IMO many are already going through motions but because they are trapped in a Borg only few wake up to escape while the guilt and fear of losing loved hangs over the others that would like to leave but can't. So how many brave JWs do we know that are willing to take the first step away from the mother? I don't see exodus just yet, we'll have to wait for wts to do something stupid soon or the exodus may not happen for another couple decades or it might be just a gradual decline - you know the bible did say the love of the greater number would cool off, and Jesus was talking about Christians so that's why more are leaving God's organization, we have to stay close to GB more than ever because we know they're the anointed...... oh ya, that's another sign the end is close
looking at the 607/587 bce issue, i was wondering if the bethel could spin some new light to avoid embarassment and buy themselves an extra 25 years or so.. if it was 1935, they could claim that the call to close the doors to heaven was actually the real date of jesus' invisible reign and tie up two embarassments with one flash of light.. best i could find though, nothing really important happended then.
anyone else with better jw historical records think of an "out" for them?.
once 2014 comes, they are in for a major explanation.
Generation is overlapping
1914 is mentioned less and less
JW aren't as wts educated to argue as they use to
simplified watchtower might be a sign of what kind of thinking people are being recruited
2014 will come and go, with maybe more jw waking up, by more I mean more than on average but there won't be a mass exodus, many that are in are drones who will follow blindly, while those who wake up are few enough that wts can put pressure to blackball and bully around. Their day will come but I really doubt it will be in 2014, nor do I think they will change a date to 1934. If anything, they should have changed it to 1975 just because according to them they were off by 100 years in counting the 6000th year which originally was the start of Jesus return according to Russell - 1874. 1975 as the return of Jesus would have at least bought them 100 more years of not worrying about dates and the meaning of generation.
They aren't proactive so they will sit and wait and react if there is more murmouring about 2014 and why no end is in sight.
