Pilchard

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Posts by Pilchard

• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

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• 

  Pilchard

  besty:

  Perhaps you would be better to address your question to the NWT Translation Commitee? I can hardly speak for them.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

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• 

  Pilchard

  UnDis: "Was there ever a time in all of eternity when Jehovah did not possess wisdom?"

  No, but there was a time when there was no one to experience Jehovah's Wisdom. So the witness to Jehovah's Wisdom began with the first creature to experience it. Jesus Christ, the "wisdom of God":

  1 Cor 1:24 ... Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.

  Christ was the first to experience God's wisdom and power. Indeed Christ was the first EXPRESSION of God's wisdom and power.

  Proverbs 8:22-25 (NWT): “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way...

  So the first expression of Jehovah's wisdom (and power) was Jesus.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  Here:
  
  *** Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
  
  First of all to be firstborn of all creation seems to make him part of the creation.
  
  He is not said to be firstborn of the uncreated.
  
  *** Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, ... all things have been created through him, and for him.
  
  This explains why Jesus needed to be firstborn in order to be the means by which everything was created. Each participant in the creative act has to exist before the things created.
  
  So he is firstborn BECAUSE all things were created through him. So he HAD to be born FIRST. Before everything else.
  
  And I know you will get all picky on the word "all" but there is no reason to assume that the "all" had to include Jesus if he was created. The word "all" frequently fails to include the one performing the action.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  Here:
  
  *** Col 1:18 He is the head of the body, the assembly, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
  
  
  If firstborn means "preeminance" then why is he the "firstborn from the dead" so that he will have the "preeminence"?
  
  He is preeminant so that he will be preeminant?
  
  No! Firstborn of the dead means that Jesus is the first person to be resurrected to heavenly life.
  
  So he is the first one to be "born again" as a spirit.
  
  This tallies with Psalm 89:27:
  
  *** Ps 89:27 I will also appoint him my firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.
  
  This is clearly indicating that Christ (firstborn of creration) will be appointed the first to be born in some future respect.
  
  Of course Paul explained that for us by telling us that this prophecy of a future birth related to Jesus being born again through resurrection to heaven.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  What is your point?
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  Yes. That description is only applied to Jehovah.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  I think being the "Alpha andd the Omega" simply means Jehovah is the beginning and the end of matters.

  What he begins he finishes. He is the beginner and finisher of all things.

  Revelation 21:6-7 (New International Version)

  6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

  What he starts he brings to completion.
• 
  347

  Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  personally i hate bible ping-pong.

  i don't think it ever gets anywhere, i don't think it solves anything and i don't think the participants ever make any head room.

  however i will say in this case, i have been proven wrong.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  What does this mean?
  
  *** Isa 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” says Jehovah, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.
  
  
  Q) What does "Before me there was no God formed" mean?
  
  A) Before Jehovah existed there was no God.
  
  Why? Because Jehovah has always existed.
  
  Q) What does "neither will there be after me" mean?
  
  A) After Jehovah finishes existing there will be no God.
  
  Why? Because Jehovah will always exist.
  
  SO:
  
  *** Isa 43:10 ... Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.
  
  No Gods pre-existed Jehovah and no God's will exist after he finishes his existence.
  
  It is a statement of God's eternal nature. That is all.
  
  God exists and there will never be an "after" Jehovah because he will never end just like there was never a "before" Jehovah because he always was.
  
  But DURING Jehovah's Godship he created many gods as the Bible fully shows in many places.
• 
  32

  The Issue of Christ as Mediator

  by passwordprotected in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think i've hit on why the wts love to downplay christ's role as mediator.

  it's not just so that they can have their two classes of christians.

  they have to downplay this aspect of christ because it throws up the issue of his divinity.. who is christ mediating for?.

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  Pilchard

  Negotiations don't arise from agreement, the need for negotiations arise from dispute. What's disputed? Negotiations imply weakness, a willingness to compromise. What's Jesus willing to compromise?
  
  A "covenant" is a contract. Why does god need a contract? What terms are being negotiated? Why do the terms need to be negotiated? Negotiations imply equality of principles. Who are the principles?
  
  What are the conditions? Why are the conditions being negotiated?
  
  Moses was a man. Jesus is a ghost. Why did god use a man and now is using a ghost?

  It does not matter how you want to word it.

  Moses did it for the Old Covenant and now Jesus does it for the New Covenant.

  What is being negotiated? The AGREEMENT of the participants.

  Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice, and keep my covenant, then you shall be my own possession from among all peoples; for all the earth is mine;
  
  Exod 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

  Exod 19:7 Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which Jehovah commanded him.

  Exod 19:8 All the people answered together, and said, “All that Jehovah has spoken we will do.” Moses reported the words of the people to Jehovah.
• 
  32

  The Issue of Christ as Mediator

  by passwordprotected in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i think i've hit on why the wts love to downplay christ's role as mediator.

  it's not just so that they can have their two classes of christians.

  they have to downplay this aspect of christ because it throws up the issue of his divinity.. who is christ mediating for?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Pilchard

  I've asked Witnesses this and never got an answer . . . What's the dispute that needs mediating? And who are the principles?

  It is not a dispute.
  
  
  Jesus is negotiating the terms and conditions of the Covenant arrangement. He is performing the same role with the New Covenant that Moses did with the Old Covenant.
  
  
  Moses presented God's terms to the nation of Israel and he extracted Israel's promise to abide by the terms and conditions or suffer the consequences.
  
  
  There are many types of "mediator" but when it comes to mediating the inauguration of a covenant between God and man, them Moses is the Biblical example.
  
  Old Covenant:
  
  Obey Mosaic Law => Nation and Kingdom of priests
  
  *** Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice, and keep my covenant, then you shall be my own possession from among all peoples; for all the earth is mine;
  
  *** Exod 19:6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”
  
  New Covenant:
  
  Remain faithful till death => Nation and Kingdom of priests
  
  *** Luke 22:28 But you are those who have continued with me in my trials.
  
  *** Luke 22:29 I confer on you a kingdom, even as my Father conferred on me,
  
  *** Luke 22:30 that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom. You will sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
  
  So the Old Covenant and the New Covenant were for the same purpose, to provide a holy nation as the 'seed' of Abraham's promise for the fulfilment of the greater - Abramic Covenant that ALL nations would be blessed through Abraham's seed.
  
  So the New Covenant (like the Old Covenant) is simply an agreement through which a nation of King Priests are gathered in order to be the means by which God provides his promised blessings to the rest of mankind.