Posts by superpunk

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

My analogy was an attempt to understand that PERHAPS God, IF he permits suffering, may do it in that manner and I may be right or I may be wrong, I don't know.
I don't think that God allows for MAJOR suffering, like the type we see during war and natural disasters, but PERHAPS he allows us to "bloddy our noses" from tiem to time so that we may learn something.
Perhaps, I don't know.

I don't think you were so non-committal in your prior response. It seemed like you were saying that not only does he allow it, but he's doing it for our benefit, so we have no business describing him as neglectful. That's what your conclusion suggested (rather strongly) to me, imo.

Then one day, God answered.
The rest is very personal...

If you told me, you'd have to kill me - right? :-) That seems to always be the way... :-(

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

I'm sorry, PSac - but you appear to be contradicting yourself.

Just a few posts ago, you offered an analogy which I believed was an explanation of why God allows suffering. It appears to me that you were saying he does so because he realizes we need to learn some sort of lesson, as shown in your analogy of why you sometimes allow your children to find out that doing a certain thing will harm them.

Then in your last post, you say;

I do not think that God allows/permits suffering, I think the world is the way it is because it can be no other way.

Did I read something wrong? Am I simply not understanding your point?

Now, how did the HS come to me?
Well, that is something !

That is pretty much what I want to know. I frankly don't understand the claims of people who say they know Jesus without the bible. I can accept that someone says they know God in some ambiguous manner, but you were more specific. The impression given is that some force appeared to you, said "What's up? I'm Jesus, this is God. PSac, God - God, PSac. Hey Psac why don't you learn more about us in this book that we had written about ourselves?" I am very interested in how exactly that happened. It's not everyday that you get to talk to someone who has met the Almighty. ;-)

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

I acknowledged that there may be versions of Christianity that have found ways to disconnect the OT monster completely....which seems difficult, if you are at the same time believing in Jesus....who cited OT legends (which he must have known were wrong) and appeared to think God was the same God the Jews experienced. (At least from the alleged eyewitness accounts - perhaps you don't like those either.)

That doesn't seem like "Christianity" to me. It's spirituality, but I don't see how it could have anything to do with Christ. But that's another thread.

It seems to me, from what you've described your particular version of Christianity as, that you have to honestly state that you have no idea why God permits/causes suffering. You're sure he must have a good reason for it (although you're not sure why you're sure of that) though. After all, he is God. And apparently, for people who have realized that the ancient Holy Texts are hooey, but would still like to believe in a deity, "God" is simply whatever you want him to be at the moment. He cares about us, but he can't do anything about our pain, and may never be able to, but rest assured he's out there.

Surely you realize how impossible to comprehend this must be for a skeptic or interested person. Christians all claim they're worshipping this one dude, but they can't agree on anything about him, what he likes, what he wants, or what he's like. Their answers on why HE/IT permits/causes suffering are just as scattered.

Having a discussion with a variety of Christians is subsequently frustrating. It's almost like a skeptic would need EACH of you to publish your very own book of personal theology, before engaging in a discussion with you. Because otherwise, we attempt to approach from what we perceive is a fairly common Christian belief, and are met with "Well that's not what I believe!" *Sigh*

As a Christian that found God through Jesus OUTSIDE the bible

How is that done - exactly?

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

But that isn't the whole God story, Psac - unless you are discounting any sort of creation theory whatsoever.

In almost all Christian theology - we became disconnected from God somehow, right? (If you have a different theory nevermind - Christians have a wide variance of opinion on their core doctrines, and they don't appear to be the least bit ashamed about it)

In the theology where humans commit an act of independence, and thus separate from the Lord, the warning is always given in a punitive sense. So you have to fix it to where you tell your daughter - "If you jump on the chair, I will hurt you." Even if jumping on the chair, in and of itself, would not hurt the child.

I realize there are a great many progressive Christians who think God just kind of put the ingredients in his science kit and then POOF! is watching it all play out as sort of an indifferent, hand-wringing observer of the human condition - but that is not Bible-God, and it certainly doesn't seem like a creature worth worshipping, anymore than a so-called "Sperm-donor" father who then abandons his wife and offspring is a Father worth loving.

35

"Does the Christian God Exist?"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

last night, author and ex-christian, john w. loftus debated dinesh d'souza on the topic, "does the christian god exist?".

below is loftus' opening statement.. .

in every single case dineshs response will be pretty much the same.

superpunk

The christian God exists in the hearts and deeds of those that follow his teachings

Jiminy Crickett?

116

Christians: Is Military Service Wrong?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

christians: is military service wrong?.

imho, there are times when individuals/famlies/communities/states/nations must take up arms to defend themselves.

otherwise, they will cease to exist.. .

superpunk

Theologically, JWs have the rest of Christianity by the short and curlies on this topic - IMO.

35

"Does the Christian God Exist?"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

last night, author and ex-christian, john w. loftus debated dinesh d'souza on the topic, "does the christian god exist?".

below is loftus' opening statement.. .

in every single case dineshs response will be pretty much the same.

superpunk

I'm telling you that as a believer, I feel no need to attempt to present a case for God's existence.
IMO, He's presented Himself quite well!

One might say that for an Almighty "I AM", presenting yourself in such a way that more than half the planet doubts your existence or outright worships other gods could be construed as a massive failure.

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

And God asserts that man is his enemy

If life was the plot to Rocky IV, would God be Rocky or Drago?

Apollo Creed?

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

Yes, I did. But all I saw was a fuzzy born-again testimonial, which IMO also is invalidated by your previous statement as outlined above, and I thought if posted about it twice it might become redundant.

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

My faith in God is based on my belief in his Son Jesus and the teachings of Jesus and that, to me, means that God is Love as his son is Love.

Do you really not see how that is completely contrary to your previous (and IMO completely honest and refreshing) statement?;

IF God exists and is omnipotent and omniscient, we have NO IDEA what God does and why God does it.