in the past, i was hardly keen on reading for pleasure but i have been cracking open some of the more, uh, classic(?
) writings lately in an attempt to broaden my limited understanding.
i'm pretty taken with thomas paine's the age of reason at the moment but i've also come across a number of quotes from nietzsche and oscar wilde that make a great deal of sense to me.
Did the book called the Bible excel in purity of ideas and expression all the books now extant in the world, I would not take it for my rule of faith, as being the Word of God; because the possibility would nevertheless exist of my being imposed upon. But when I see throughout the greatest part of this book scarcely anything but a history of the grossest vices, and a collection of the most paltry and contemptible tales, I cannot dishonour my Creator by calling it by his name.
Paine
does god have a visible organization today?.
well, whether we agree with them or not, the governing body of jehovah's witnesses certainly believes he does have, and they tell us, that the watchtower bible and tract society is that visible organization.
as we see, they also tell us that their watchtower society is the channel or instrument through which the spiritual food is delivered to other members of the household.. 1939 "we acknowledge as the visible organization of jehovah on earth the watchtower bible & tract society, and recognize the society as the channel or instrument through which jehovah and christ jesus give instruction and meat in due season to the household of faith.
God is the night manager at Denny's, who serves us delicious Moons over My Hammy and coffee when we are drunk at 3:30 on Sunday morning.
So I guess his organization is Denny's.
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
Superpunk, I think I am not making myself clear and I apologise for that.
You're being perfectly clear, your line of questioning just fails to address this particular topic.
I would never worship the OT God again. My morality is above his, therefore we can conclude he is not THE God. Even if he was, he can get bent because I don't want anything to do with him. But again that does nothing for the thread topic.
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
I think you may be missing the point, most people that want God to step in and fix things have their OWN idea of who and what God is, OR they don't believe in God and are trying to make a point, others are asking a genuine question and looking for a genuine answer because they truly want to know why.
I think you're missing the point, that your question is meaningless - rather, it is misdirection - making the issue "Who is God" rather than "Why doesn't God help us". People want THE God to step in and fix things, if he is THE God then he will obviously fix it better than any of us could even imagine. But the fact is, even if he exists, he doesn nothing that has any meaningful impact on our world, much less does anything to actually help anyone or anything on this earth avoid suffering. So there are a few possible conclusions;
1. He has his reasons for refusing to help us. Maybe he's teaching us lessons, maybe he is detained, maybe he is impotent, maybe he is incompetent, maybe he is spiteful. The explanations for his inaction by his alleged followers are as numerous as the sands, and all seem to have deep logical flaws.
2. He simply does not care about us.
3. He does not exist.
You obviously subscribe to some version of conclusion 1. The only form of question 1 which I personally think is a satisfactory answer is that he is incapable of helping us, maybe because he lacks the power or is incompetent. If he has the power, but refuses, then he is malevolent. So if he exists, something must be keeping him from helping us. Conclusion 2 is hurtful, but logical. Conclusion 3 seems most palatable. No complex or hurtful explanations for his inaction are necessary. And since his existence or nonexistence doesn't seem to impact us either way, it is probably best to just suppose he does not exist - the default position, the position we would all take if our ancestors hadn't invented Russell's teapot millenia ago.
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
Think about what you just wrote and then think about what the JW's believe will happen when thier 'version" of God DOES "fix things".
Their version of God is obviously not THE God, because we can evaluate the flaws in his alleged "plan". So choosing him to fix things would be roughly the same as choosing Mickey Mouse.
This is not a real choice, and therefore becomes a non sequitur, unless you are willing to suggest that there are ACTUALLY multiple Gods to choose from, in which case a meaningful choice can be made.
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
Here is the thing, the world is the way it is because it can be no other way
Exactly. The world looks exactly like it would whether God exists or not, which is why many wonder why anyone is determined to posit the existence of a being who appears to not affect us at all.
Now, I do know that some people still think that God SHOULD do something about it, but when I ask them WHICH God, they get a bewildered look, so I explain:
Which God do you wan tto fix this world?
Your question implies that there is ACTUALLY more than one option, and I had no idea you were polytheistic. ;-) I think most thinking people would say that they would prefer that if God exists, then they would prefer that THE God step in and do something, whoever he happens to be isn't important.
i don't mean the basic moral code of behavior (that many non biblical lands also just happen to have) that people use to model their lives, but the 'deeper' stuff.... assuming that god has had his divine plan for vindicating himself etc ever since he figured that adam may screw up, and he needed to let faithful mankind know the 'plan' and how to survive it all.... why is the important stuff all gobbledegook?.
the time frame, prophecy, signs and so on are all so obscure that even the cleverest theologians can't understand it or agree on it.
the 'truth' is so muddled and juggled up that every understanding can be logically challenged with an equally challengable one.
I see people not really believing that the bible is the divine inspired word of god, but reading the passages they like (Jesus parts) and base their life and hope on this, that even itself may well be myth and story like the other parts they reject as myth and story.
i know this may be a touchy subject, but it's something that i think has been so obvious for the last few weeks at the meetings.
let me start by saying that i do understand the "headship" arrangement, and agree that it is biblical.. but it seems that the tendency is to take it way too far.
whenever speaking about training children, i've noticed that the boys are told to be trained by their fathers in various types of work, including trades.
The bible was written at a time when women were regarded as property, second-class citizens, and reflects that overall world-view.
Is it any wonder that a cult who ascribes to biblical literalism (infallible/inerrantism) would subscribe to this archaic viewpoint, and reflect it in their "advice" for women in the organization?
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
CAN God protect us? Yes. Does he always? No.
Pretty pathetic God then, if you ask me.
she asked me why god didn't step in to stop tragedies.
for example, recently twin baby girls were attacked in their cots while their parents were down stairs.
both suffered life changing injuries.. my daughter knows a couple who have waited years for a baby and eventually had i.v.f.
Epicurus put that nicely centuries ago, unfortunately there is no satisfactory religious answer to it.
All attempts to reconcile God's inaction with his existence and power either make God look like a monster, or incompetent.
What's worse is when privileged Christians claim that "God has answered their prayers" for something trivial like a new job or something while children in war-torn countries are losing limbs to land mines. What? The almighty had time to get you a job interview but couldn't manage to make that little girl step a few feet to the right?
The question of suffering is irreconcilable with the concept of a loving, omnipotent God imo.
