One I time I went to a homebound woman's house for the ever popular phone witnessing. How it worked was, one person would make a call which took a maximum five minutes on a really good call, but typically much, much less, then the women would spend the next five to fifteen minutes chatting before another person would take a turn. When I questioned them about this practice they mentioned that if they were working regular house to house they would spend a similar amount of time talking/walking between doors. It made sense to them but not to me.
donuthole
JoinedPosts by donuthole
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More time talking to each other or householders in the field: You decide......
by dissed inthe jw's annual report has lots of numbers to consider, but this one is probably the most misquoted and misrepresented by them.. 1, 500, 000, 000 hours in the field (note: that's time in the field, not talking to interested ones).
now, they can write their own rules on how to fill out a field service report.
door to door - 8 hours (480 minutes) using the 'dissed rule' of 10% that's 48 minutes of actual talking in the field per month.
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"Jesus is Lord". Every hear a JW say that?
by Chalam inromans 10:9 (new international version)9that if you confess with your mouth, "jesus is lord," and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved.. ever hear a jw utter this statement?.
ever seen a jw live like jesus their lord?.
here's a couple of verses on this theme.
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donuthole
In the WT Jesus is sometimes referred to as Lord but it is not a common for Witnesses to say as it would sound too much like "Christendom"
I was looking at JW WT fan page on Facebook someone here had linked to. Now four years removed from that religion it was incredible to see how much they speak endlessly about Jah/Jehovah and the suprisingly lack of mention of Jesus. As for my personal experience in my final year as a Witness I started getting into hot water with the local BOE who felt that I spoke about Jesus too much. This even when had a very JW mindset and barely appreciated Jesus. The early Christian Congregation did not have this problem. From what we read in the New Testament they had no fear of having to mention "Jehovah" four times for every one time they spoke about Jesus. If anything there was the fear of not speaking about Christ enough.
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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donuthole
@GromitSK - Paulapollos made comments about the perception of God within the organization which minimus commented on and I followed with my two cents.
@minimus - lol, random anonymous username fail. (At least it was anonymous until JWD added Gravatar support.)
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What do you think of the GB's new tactics?
by lepermessiah inhere is what i am getting at with that subject title:.
this sunday's wt study article really hit home for me what many have been talking about on the forum.. when i was growing up, there was a big deal made about the identity of each gb member - people would wax poetically about working with them at bethel, meeting them at a convention, etc.it wasn't unusual for them to be frequently named in articles, pictured in books, and somewhat glorified.. the president of the wtbs was practically on par with christ - he was viewed as practically a deity.. i had friends who could not only name the 12 apostles, but could rattle off the names of the gb members!
now, it seems like the tactic has changed, starting with the reduction of the presidents' role of a few years ago - place massive emphasis on the gb itself as a unit, but keep the profile of the members lower.
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donuthole
With Russell, Rutherford, and Knorr there was a strong promotion of the President of the Society as a figurehead. When you get into Franz presidency the GB was coming into function which dimished the importance of the presidency and "the Society". Henschel had none of the prominence of those that held the office before him. However at the time the GB didn't jump in and fulfill the gap that was created by a loss of singular figurehead. The object of reverence became simply "the Society" and what it represented with the GB working in the background. (This kind of mirrored what happened in Rutherford's time where adoration of Pastor Russell was transferred to the Watchtower Society before moving into worship of Judge Rutherford as "the President".)
With the GB taking the place of an authoritative president there was a lull but then things began to change again. This possibly started with the Governing Body seperating itself from the legal corporations. After that you had the WT leadership encourage the publishers to discontinue using the expression "the Society" and replace it with "the Faithful Slave". Futher promotion came in the revised Organization book where publishers were told that they must trust the Slave completely. But even in this "the Slave" was still pretty nebulous without a real face.
I think certain events of recent years have been to put "a face" to "the Slave". An example is the new "Bearing Witness" commentary on the book of Acts, which features a group photograph of the Governing Body. Also at the beginning of the newly released Creation DVD you have the Ted Jaracz introduction where he is specifically noted to be a member of the Governing Body.
If the trend continues I would expect to see the Govering Body to completely assume the role of the Faithful Slave and distinguish themselves from the rest of "the anointed". Recent Watchtower study articles are heavily leaning toward this without fully committing to the idea. I also would expect the Governing Body to continue to take a more prominent role in the minds of Witnesses. Along those lines expect more face time from them as a group and indvidually. They will continue to become more authorative and the idol worship of them will increase -- because that is just the way it goes in the world and in false religion.
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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donuthole
Among other things Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father". (John 14:9) In Christ we have the clearest picture of the Eternal Father. If Hebrew Scriptures were a complete revelation of Almighty God there would be no need to send the Son to show him to us. The only way to come to know the Father is through the Son - period - that should be the starting point for anyone who is interested in such things. The JW's fail because they marginalize the Son and do not look to him to reveal the Father. They start with the Father (well not really their Father because they deny that he is a father to them - so they begin with Jehovah God) and work their way "down" from there.
Off topic - I know - sorry folks
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Mill Hill Disfellowshippings
by BorgHater ina few months ago there was a thread about a couple of elders at the mill hill bethel being disfellowshipped because they disagreed with some wt doctrine (i can't recall exactly what it was) and that several other betheliteswere under 'investigation'.
i haven't heard anything since, does anyone know anything more about this?.
borghater xx.
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donuthole
Pauappallos thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you that the Watchtower encourages a selfish attitude towad the future. I describe it as materialistic, being concerned with the physical things rather then spiritual . If I could just add one thought to supplement those you shared -
Here is a scripture about a future hope that is often read by Witnesses and shared in their door to door work -
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Rev 21:1-4)
When a JW read this or shares this, what is the focus? It generally is the part about no more tears, pain or death. That's not a particularly bad thing to desire but I find it interesting that the part about God living with his people is continually overlooked. The focus is always on the material and not the spiritual. A typical JW has no real desire for such intimacy with God. They are content to live in a paradise earth with "the anointed" as their mediators before a distant God. It is a similar setup to what they have today except "the anointed" have moved.
Consider a typical JW presentation which begans with a publisher showing the householder a picture of "paradise earth" and saying, "wouldn't you like to live in a world like this?" [Allow for response] "What part of this appeals to you most?" The focus is on the material, having your own home, plenty of good food, and a pet lion. :-) If you believe in the Word of God, there are so many innumerable blessings that we can enjoy today through Him. JW's are told these things are not for them. They are taught to hope for the future but even then they are deprived of the things we are promised in the here and now.
They have no desire to be "anointed" and to have the spiritual things of God because they have been indoctrinated to long for the things in the material realm. Hence they equate their earthly lusts as having an "earthly hope". This causes them to reject the Bread of Life for perishable earthly bread - all encouraged by Watchtower leadership.
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So what's in it for the WTS?
by leec ini'm still just trying to understand ..... what is the real essence of why the leaders at the very core of this religion do what they do?
i assume they are all in the 144k, so i get that.
but i mean ... that can't be the entire motivation for all this misery.
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donuthole
fortune and glory, kid ... fortune and glory
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NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower
by Ultimate Reality infrom jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .
article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.
13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.
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donuthole
With the past two changes to the generation they lost the sense of urgency because it couldn't be tied to any visible group of people on earth today. This new change hints that the current crop of 50+ year olds sitting in the GB will be the anointed to see the Great Tribulations. You have the old-school group with Rutherford, Franz, and Knorr overlapping with the new group of Jackson, Morris, and Lett.
I know the wording of the WT allows for multiple generations but I don't think that is the intent.
My other observation is that they simply aren't trying any more. I recall the old way "new light" was introduced with long, non-sensical explanations - but at least they attempted an explanation. Now they just say "evidently" this is how it is and expect it to be accepted.
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Jehovah's Witnesses & The United Nations
by minimus ini've read by some posters that the watchtower was a "member" of the un.
i believe this is incorrect.. i only make this comment because if we were to repeat the thought that the witnesses were members of the united nations, such misinformation could backfire on us..
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donuthole
They were an active associate of the United Nations Department of Public Information publishing on their behalf with the printing presses they dedicated to Jehovah, distributing such information via millions of Witnesses worldwide also dedicated to Jehovah.
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WHY 12 tribes in Rev don't match original 12 tribes, accidentally ran into the answer.
by EndofMysteries inbefore i go further, has anyone researched or ever found an explanation?
i am into other topics now but fell upon some actual reasons.
i believe the wt just says it's symbolic and since it's not the same 12 as originally, that it proves it's symbolic.
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donuthole
Dan is omitted, presumably for idolatry.
Ephraim is present but is referred to as Joseph. Joseph's two sons, Manessah and Ephraim inherited equal portions with the other sons of Israel, bringing the tribe total to 13. Though not firstborn, Ephraim was blessed over his brother. In other parts of the Bible Ephraim is equated with Joseph.