donuthole

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Posts by donuthole

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  44

  How manly is your drink?

  by BurnTheShips in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.askmen.com/daily/photo_blog/infograph-how-manly-is-your-drink.html.

  i drink single-malt scotch, natch.

  bts.

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  donuthole

  Gin! Sapphire with tonic. Hendricks in a martini.
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  30

  Don't leave, its God's organization....

  by dissed in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently, i've been seeing this argument displayed here more frequently by those still believing jw's.. usually in reply to arguments they can not answer well, like 1914, generation(s), etc.... its almost like, they are are having serious doubts as well, but their fall back is, "but its god organization....where else would you go......don't leave, we are so close to the end".

  as one recently shared their experience with a jc.

  the elders, when feeling trapped on explanations, fell back to this defense.

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  donuthole

  ... because God has always had an organization here on earth except when he hasn't ...
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  25

  Do You Constantly Think About The Witnesses At This Point in Your Life?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just talking to a guy who's been df'd for years and he still talks about things like it was yesterday in watchtowerland.. are you still consumed by your jw past?.

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  donuthole

  Each day I sit here twirling my mustache and plotting the downfall of the Organization. mwhaahhahaha.

  Kidding.

  I think it is tough to put the past behind when family and friends are involved. You are kind of continually being smacked in the face by the whole thing. It can be challenging.
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  85

  Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

  the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

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  donuthole

  Interesting discussion, despite my intentions otherwise I can't help but to continue on ... :-) Here is an interesting story:

  Simon the Leper was originally cured of his illness by Jesus. He is the man that leper Jesus had great compassion for. He went and showed himself to the priest per instruction from Jesus, though warned not tell about Jesus. That is how Lazarus originally became known to the priests. At that time he changed him name to Lazarus (God Has Helped). He and his family (Mary & Martha) relocated to nearby Bethany, where the poor and invalid stayed. As PSacremento said, "poor lazarus, had a run of bad health", and he succumbs to another unspecified illness resulting in death. When Jesus arrives to raise him, Mary in her grief says that had Jesus been there he would have been healed. She is well aware of his earlier miracle which resulted in her brother being cleansed of his skin disease. Lazarus is now in "third heaven", "paradise", "abraham's bosom", whatever you want to call it. Jesus resurrects Lazarus and there is much rejoicing. Well not from the Jewish leaders because they now know that Lazarus in league with this Jesus character that is becoming a problem for them. So they opt to kill them both. Jesus is arrested. Lazarus trails him with Peter to the priest's house. Lazarus gains access to the courtyard because the gatekeeper knew of him, the cured leper. The gatekeeper didn't get the memo that Lazarus was a wanted man. Peter runs off and Lazarus stays by his lord, eventually ending up at the execution site. Jesus is raised from the dead and tells Peter that he will have die for his sake. Peter asks about Lazarus. Jesus indicates that if he wants Lazarus to live until he returns what business is to Peter. The rumor starts that Lazarus will not die - why should he? He has already been resurrected once before by Jesus himself. Later Lazarus settles in Asia Minor, he orally provides his personal testimony, maybe he writes it down. He dies and the community is dissapointed because they didn't think he would. Whoever (John the Elder?) compiles Lazarus' memoirs gives testimony to their truthfulness but also seeks to clear up the confusion about their brother's death. The end.

  Peace and love.
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  44

  Dearest Tec... re the Rich Man and Lazarus..

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!.

  thank you for your kind patience.

  his request to have lazarus dip the "tip" of his finger in "water" and "cool" his "tongue," tells us: there is no water in the world of the dead.

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  donuthole

  The Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead was a different Lazarus than this one. Two men with the same name. The Lazarus that Jesus raised was not poor.

  I don't know that is necessarily the case. We really don't know the financial circumstance of him and has family. But, Bethany was not Beverly Hills. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_(Biblical_village) As Jesus said while staying there, "You will always have the poor with you." Nevertheless wouldn't it seem a bit beyond coincidence that we are talking about two men that had the same name, that both had leprosy, that were both raised from the death?
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  44

  Dearest Tec... re the Rich Man and Lazarus..

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!.

  thank you for your kind patience.

  his request to have lazarus dip the "tip" of his finger in "water" and "cool" his "tongue," tells us: there is no water in the world of the dead.

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  donuthole

  "... send him to the house of my father, for I have five brothers, in order that he may give them a thorough witness, that they also should not get into this place of torment.' But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.' Then he said, 'No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.' But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.'"

  The interesting thing that never occurred to me is that what this rich man requested actually happened. Lazarus did rise from the dead and rather than be persuaded by this, they conspired to kill him.
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  71

  Notes from my Judicial Committee (I was DF'ed at the end)

  by notverylikely in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  these are the details of my disfellowshipping.

  the names and locations have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty.

  my errors are not hidden in an attempt to make me look better, this simply is a presentation of the facts that led up to the disfellowshipping and a re-telling of the contents of the meeting.. .

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  donuthole

  Some key points during that meeting were that the brothers were not in sync on what current WT beliefs were.

  This isn't necessarily surprising. It's been my experience that "apostates" tend to keep up with "Jehovah's Chariot" more than those in the Organization.
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  23

  "Rutherford, a prominent member of the Governing Body" (David Splane, 2010 DC)

  by pirata in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in david splane's talk, "remain in the secret place of the most high", at the 2010 district convention he referred to "rutherford, a prominent member of the governing body".. while technically correct (the governing body is a technical term for a board of directors), the term "governing body" currently has a spiritual meaning, seperate from "board of directors", in the eyes of jws: the representatives of the faithful and discreet slave who make the decisions on spiritual matters.

  my understanding is that the "board of directors" handle other business/legal operations (since the 80s re-org).. please correct my if i am wrong, but retroactively applying the modern-day understanding of the term "governing body" to the board of directors in the rutherford/knorr era suggests that the board of directors had equal input on spiritual matters.

  my understanding though is that the president/vice-president made the majority of decisions on spiritual matters during that time.. does anyone know of any quotes or references from watchtower material that states who actually made the spiritual decisions during the rutherford/knorr era?.

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  donuthole

  There was a convention photo-pamphlet from france(?) which had numerous pictures of Rutherford. If I recall the captions spoke of him being the "boss". It was posted on here before. I wish I could have found it; maybe someone else can produce it.

  At another convention there was a loyalty vow that individuals had to take, not just to the Society but to Judge Rutherford.

  These are but of couple examples just how "prominent" he was.
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  85

  Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

  the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

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  donuthole

  I see you are getting your information from Ben Witherington, I have read this also and I can see some of the weight it carries.

  I found it to be pretty persuasive when I read it last year. However, I held off judgement until I heard from a more authoritative source.

  You mention the issue of the High priest, but let us not forget that the last place Lazarus would wan't to be is NEAR the High priest or those looking to kill him, as the very GOJ mentions.

  To the contrary I think it is perfect. It contrasts Lazarus' bravery with Peter's cowardice. This is further shown when none of the other 12 stay by Jesus side during the execution but Lazarus is there.

  The issue of whether the supper in John is THE last supper is a tough one since John makes no mention of "bread and wine", Since that was already dealt with before, but it DOES mention Judas' betrayal and the subsequent capture of Jesus.

  Yes I agree that the mention of Judas' betrayal does lean toward it being the same the event despite the curious absence of the "bread and wine".

  Order of progression is something that the writer(s) of the GOJ didn't focus too much on, or [erhaps the editor(s).

  Yeah I'm not sure about the order of things. For instance GOJ places the cleansing of the temple at the start of the ministry whereas the other gospels have it at the end. So you either have the same event happening twice or one account is incorrect.

  There are also some weird timing disagreements that I haven't been able to reconcile. GOJ has Jesus being executed before the passover meal while the other gospels have it afterword.
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  85

  Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

  the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

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  donuthole

  That would mean that Lazarus was the one at the last supper, that Lazarus was the one at the tomb with Peter and that Lazarus was the one who took care of Jesus's mother.

  I don't know if the meal in the GOJ was the "last supper", there is a curious absence of the ceremony involving the bread and wine. I don't know about whether or not it is. When Jesus visited Judea he stayed at Lazarus' house in Bethany. But per the custom of the day the guest of honor, Jesus, would have been seated next to the man of the house, Lazarus.

  I don't find this necessarily a compelling argument, but the other disciple's arrival at the tomb before Peter may indicate that he knew the area better being a resident thereof.

  As said, Lazarus' house in Bethany was where Jesus lay his head. It isn't unreasonable that he would entrust Mary into the care of his dear friends. The account says he took her to his home. In the book of Acts, Mary is in Judea, not Galilee.

  But for the sake of discussion, let's assume that the "other disciple" was John the Apostle. How is it that John was known to the High Priest and had access to his courtyard? Not that likely for a rural fisherman from Galilee but more reasonable for Lazarus that had connections with the priests. He even had some at his burial.