Posts by donuthole

19 in time the men of the city said to e?lisha: here, now, the situation of the city is good, just as my master is seeing; but the water is bad, and the land is causing miscarriages.. 20 at that he said: fetch me a small new bowl and put salt in it.

so they fetched it for him.

donuthole

In Venezuela, my wife's biological mother...who is an hechicera (witch)...and makes her living from it...found out her grand daughter (my wife's niece) was being sexually molested by her father (my sister in law's husband.) She called evil down on him, in her way. He was horribly killed in an automobile accident days later. Make of that what you will. I've drawn no conclusions.

Yep these things happen all the time; which is why those that follow Christ have to absolutely be watchful and not fall into cursing. There are real consequences to not exercising forgiveness, not just for the for the person you have a problem with, but for yourself.

68

2 kings 2:23-24: The 42 children killed by bears.

by bohm in

jw
friends

(2 kings 2:19-25) .

19 in time the men of the city said to e?lisha: here, now, the situation of the city is good, just as my master is seeing; but the water is bad, and the land is causing miscarriages.. 20 at that he said: fetch me a small new bowl and put salt in it.

so they fetched it for him.

donuthole

As a Christian I do not except this passage as the truth. The Word of God teaches that we are to bless and pray for those that curse and persecute us.

22

'Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together...'

by bez in

jw
friends

just wondering what some of your opinions are on this scripture???

its one that has been thrown at me time and time again when i talk of my decision to leave the 'organization of god'.

as i would not be gathering together with his people and therefore forsaking the gathering of myself together..... (if ya get me!)..

donuthole

If I could add to some of the thoughts already expressed --

It isn't just the Watchtower that uses that set of verses in such a manner. It is a favorite of pastors used to tell people of the need to regularly "go to church".

There is a specific purpose for gathering together and the writer of Hebrews tells us it is to "spur one another to love and fine works" (v24) and to provide mutal encouragement. (v25)

Unfortunately the atmosphere at the local Kingdom Hall is typically not marked by the love that Jesus displayed and requires of those who claim to follow him. The Witnesses boast that they show "Christian love" by not going across the ocean to war and killing their brothers. How tragic that they invalidate such a stand by not showing love to the person across the isle, even harboring hatred! The elderly among them readily will testify of the chronic lack of love that permeates the Organization and grows colder day to day.

Further those verses do not say when and how often and in what manner ones should gather together. For many years there were meetings at the Kingdom Hall on three seperate days. If a person only attended two of those days - it would be said that they weren't following this counsel. What now? Today, there are only meetings on two days, and that same person in now in full compliance! Early Christian meetings were real interchanges marked by love and mutual encouragement. It wasn't sitting in a chair or on a pew and staring at the back of someone's head for an hour or two before rushing out to the nearest lunch buffet. Some Christians find much more love and encouragement meeting together with two or three for coffee than "going to church" or the Kingdom Hall.

85

Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

by VM44 in

why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

.

donuthole

@Terry

You asked:

Are these reliable sources of Faith for Post-Enlightenment citizens of Planet Earth in 2010??

No, no more than they were "reliable sources" at any time in history. The wise man thus puts his faith in Jesus who is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

@ItIsWritten

I was happy that PSacramento already responded and I'm basically of the same mind. I have reviewed those Bible passages you shared and can honestly say that none are in reference to the Bible. To do so is to divert attention away from the one we should be looking toward, hearing and listening to, namely Jesus. To preach the Word of God is to preach Christ.

85

Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

by VM44 in

why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

.

donuthole

@Itiswritten

I saw you only had 3 posts on this forum, all on this topic. I'm glad you decided to join in the discussion and hope you decide to stick around.

I have already stated that I believe that the unnamed disciple in the fourth Gospel is Lazarus. (You are already preaching to the choir on that one.) I also believe that he, at the very least, wrote (or dictated) the source material the Gospel is drawn from. What is unclear is how this this work came to be attributed to a "John" despite no internal evidence to even suggest such. In absence of such evidence we are looking at some external evidence to see what's there. Really for me it is just an intellectual curiousity.

I do have a question for you about something with a little more importance. When John the Elder encourages his readers to "not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God", does this apply to collection of books we know as the Bible? And I agree with PSacramento that it is important for Christians to understand that the Word of God is not the Bible, it is Jesus. If one "believes in the Bible" surely they should believe the testimony it gives concerning him?

Peace and love - Anthony

85

Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

by VM44 in

why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

.

donuthole

Is there any reason to see Irenaeus' statement as a lie?

I don't have any reason to suspect he was being dishonest, but possibly confused or misinformed There may be reason to suspect his motive colors his statement somewhat. Irenaeus spent alot of time defending what he believed to be the true faith against numerous heresies. What he was attempting to do was to show that there were only four true gospels versus all of the other gnostic gospels that were floating around during his day. His argument was certainly bolstered by attaching John the Apostle to the fourth gospel.

It might be assumed since he was a disciple of Polycarp who was said to be a disciple of John that he would have the inside scoop on who wrote the fourth gospel. However strangely enough in Polycarp's letter to the Phillipians he make numerous NT allusions and quotes but does not draw from the Gospel of John. It begs the question, did Polycarp even know of this gospel? Again, very strange for someone who came from Asia Minor and was a said to be a disciple of the apostle.

Another early writer that Irenaeus favors is Papias. Eusebius also draws from Papias comments on the authorship of Matthew and Mark. Papias states that he was interested in knowing first-hand what Jesus and the apostles had said and so he saw it was important to get in contact with those that had heard them. One such "hearer" was John the Elder from Asia Minor who Papias distinguishes from John the evangelist (apostle). This shows that there was another notable John in Asia Minor. I think this lead to confusion later when this John the Elder began to be associated with the Apostle John.

One of my lingering issues I have always had with this notion that the Apostle John lived to a very advanced age and died "naturally" in Asia Minor was Jesus prophecy to the two Zebedee brothers that they would also drink the cup that Jesus' was to drink. I understand this to mean that John like James would be executed for the sake of the Word.

Back to the GoJ - no matter who wrote it, the inspiration of the writer is very clear to me. It has a spiritual character that is beyond the other three gospels. I also think there was probably a good reason that these works were originally anonymous and attempting to pin names on them is more an intellectual curiousity to me, more than a necessary, spiritual pursuit. Further while I'm certain that "disciple Jesus' loved" was Lazarus I do not know if he was even the author of the fourth gospel.

85

Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

by VM44 in

why is it that the story of the resurrection of lazarus of bethany only is mentioned in the book of john and not in the other three gospel accounts of the life of jesus?.

the resurrection of lazarus was a major event in the life of jesus, but three writers failed to mention it, why?.

.

donuthole

Johannine authorship was also evidenced by Polycarp, (who is said to have known the apostles), Irenaeus and Eusebius. [ 21 ] [ 22 ] [ 23 ] [ 24 ]

I don't know that this statement is true. Polycarp is said to have been a disciple of John, true enough. However I am not aware of any place where Polycarp makes reference to gospel of John or its authorship. To the contrary in his letter to the Phillipians he makes numerous quotations to other books that would become the New Testament, but strangely omits any reference to the Gospel of John. Irenaeus was Polycarp's disciple and he does link the Gospel to the apostle John, but this was later. Writing later, Eusebius sees Irenaeus' statement as authoritative.