Posts by 4examp

11

Challenge #7 (The ALLOS-Paraclete-Spirit ACTS Like Jesus) ~ Narkissos / GS / JBeD / Serious JWs / FC

by 4examp in

narkissos, in challenge #2 you wrote:.

"i wouldn't push the distinction between allos and heteros too far;.

often the difference is stylistic rather than semantic.".

4examp

Narkissos, In Challenge #2 you wrote:
"I wouldn't push the distinction between allos and heteros too far;
often the difference is stylistic rather than semantic. "

I would, because Scripture makes many powerful (often identical) comparisons of BOTH PARACLETES.

Challenge #7:
Do you agree that 50 (additional) words (also) unite to show that THE HOLY SPIRIT,
IS "another" ALLOS-Paraclete-Person,
that DOES the SAME things as JESUS ?

{{The 1st 10 words prove The Paraclete-Spirit IS LIKE Jesus. See Challenge #6.}}

11Abides/Dwells/Remains within, 12Adopts, 13Against (eis), 14Against (kata), 15Appoints, 16Arrives, 17Comforts, 18Declares, 19Dispatches, 20From Heaven, 21From Himself, 22Grants, 23Grants Ability, 24Glorifies Another, 25Grieves, 26Guides, 27Hears, 28Indicates, 29Known, 30Leads, 31Lied to, 32Loves, 33Performs, 34Permits, 35Pleads, 36Received, 37Receives, 38Remains, 39Reminds, 40Reproves, 41Resisted, 42Reveals, 43Revelation, 44Searches, 45Sends, 46Shares, 47Signifies, 48Snatches away, 49Speaks aptly, 50Speaks directly, 51Teaches, 52Tested, 53Thinks, 54Thrusts out, 55Wills, 56Witnesses, 57Witnesses Thoroughly, 58Bears Witnesses, 59Bears Witnesses With, 60Did many other things ~~ If not convinced, there's more....

3

List of Greek Neuter Nouns

by 4examp in

do anyone have a list of greek neuter nouns?.

a comprehensive (even exhaustive) list would be fantastic !.

4examp

Great!

Thank you.

3

List of Greek Neuter Nouns

by 4examp in

do anyone have a list of greek neuter nouns?.

a comprehensive (even exhaustive) list would be fantastic !.

4examp

Do anyone have a list of Greek neuter nouns?

A comprehensive (even exhaustive) list would be fantastic !

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Narkissos, you wrote:
"It is noteworthy that many classical explanations of the Trinity, although confessing the Holy Spirit as a hupostasis or persona, keep on resorting to impersonal or abstract metaphors for the "third person".
E.g. the lover, the beloved and love in Augustine; or the knower, the known and knowledge in Thomas Aquinas."

Noteworthy??? ~ On one hand, I agree that it's noteworthy that classical explanations confess The Holy Spirit's persona.
Noteworthy??? ~ On the other, it's more just "interesting" expressions of devotional thought rather than Scriptural analysis.

You conclude: "impersonal or abstract" ???

~ "THE Lover", "THE Beloved", "THE Knower" = THE Personal -- THE very Personal !!!

~ "love", "the known", "knowledge" = Powerful depictions of "The Lover" (who "loves", "knows", & has a mind filled with "knowledge").

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Hi CTR:

Actually, Scripture says DEFINITELY "yes" to the PERSON of The Holy Spirit.

AND .................

Actually, Scripture says DEFINITELY "yes" to the POWER of The Holy Spirit.

For example, Mary became pregnant by the POWER of The Spirit, not the Person of The Spirit, or the Person of our Heavenly Father.

Mt.1:18
tou de ieesou christou hee genesis houtws een
OF THE BUT JESUS CHRIST THE ORIGIN THUS WAS

mneesteutheisees tees meetros autou marias
HAVING BEEN PROMISED IN MARRIAGE OF THE MOTHER OF HIM MARY

...prin ee sunelthein autous
...BEFORE OR TO COME TOGETHER THEM

heurethee en gastri echousa ek pneumatos hagiou
SHE WAS FOUND IN BELLY HAVING OUT OF SPIRIT HOLY

Mt.1:20
...to gar en autee genneethen ek pneumatos estin hagiou
...THE (THING) FOR IN HER GENERATED OUT OF SPIRIT IS HOLY

Lk.1:35
kai apokritheis ho aggelos eipen autee
AND HAVING ANSWERED THE ANGEL SAID TO HER

pneuma hagion epeleusetai epi se kai dunamis hupsistou
SPIRIT HOLY WILL COME OVER UPON YOU, AND POWER OF MOST HIGH

episkiasei soi dio kai to gennwmenon
WILL OVERSHADOW YOU; THROUGH WHICH ALSO THE (THING) BEING GENERATED

hagion kleetheesetai huios theou
HOLY WILL BE CALLED, SON OF GOD

It is a fact of Scripture that the Greek definite article is absent.
With all the other evidence I found & presented, I see the "power" of the "Person" involved in this incredible, unique, Bethlehem event.

So will I move on to a different view (other than holy pneuma is presented in Scripture as "Person" AND "power")?
S o far, there is no need.

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Narkissos,

I appreciate your thoughtful (but not infallible) input.

First let's address & resolve one major point.

1. You wrote "it seems to me that your survey of "personal" and "impersonal" traits ascribed to the Holy Spirit
is bound to reach one very simple conclusion: both can be found in the texts."

That's a good thing, because Ac.2:4 confirms this vital, foundational point -- a "very simple conclusion".

Scripture presents Person AND Power ~ Giver AND Gift ~ Somebody AND Something.

2. You wrote: "What you blame the WT for doing, i.e. dismissing "personal" traits as literary personification,
you expect them to do in the opposite sense: dismiss "impersonal" traits as literary reification."

NO, I am showing that Scripture presents Person AND/OR Power ~ NOT the "holy spirit" is either "personal" OR "impersonaL".

3. You wrote: that my "basic dichotomy ("personal" vs. "impersonal"), intuitive as it may be, is artificial, anachronistic and foreign...."

NO, please understand that my position is NOT "personal" vs. "impersonal".
My viewpoint is that Scripture reveals "personal" AND "impersonal" aspects of holy pneuma.

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Sad E, you wrote: "Words alone prove NOTHING at all... They merely provide evidence which is open to cross-examination."

In this context, "words" ARE the only evidence that proves or disproves any statement.
What words can you offer to disprove any of my topics.
If I am wrong, help me see where.

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Pretty tough crowd.
- 5 Portraits provide irrefutable proof that "holy spirit" & "unclean spirit" are presented as sentient beings.
- The Holy Spirit communicates in 40 Ways = irrefutable proof of Person-2-person/s.
- Demonstrated Emotion, Intellect, Will = irrefutable proof of Person.
- 10 Greek words show The Spirit IS like Jesus.
- OK then I suppose you want -- what ? -- 20 Greek words to show The Spirit ACTS like Jesus???

Why not 30 or 40 or 50?

15

Challenge #6 (The Spirit IS Like Jesus) ~ GS / JBeD / Serious JWs

by 4examp in

challenge: do you agree that 10 greek words unite to show that the holy spirit ~ is (a person) ~ like jesus?.

the spirit, our 1helper/advocate/lawyer, is the 2holy, 3everlasting, 4eternal, 5lord, 6god, who is 7truth, & 8raised up christ, & 9makes alive; & we should be 10baptized in his name.. the wt claims: ~ "the scriptures themselves unite to show that god's holy spirit is not a person"(insight p.1019, & aid p.1543).. the scriptures themselves show just the opposite !.

10 greek words prove, that what is true of god the son (&/or god the father) is also true of god the holy spirit.

4examp

Nothing personal or negative, but why the post?

What is your story?

28

JW vs non-JWs

by 4examp in

hi, i'm brand new here.. how many real jws post here?.

4examp

A dictatorship that demands 100% compliance, cannot openly admit fundamental error.

It's just not good for business.